I mentioned a few weeks ago that Michael Moore was a guest on SUNDAY MORNING SHOOTOUT, for which I am the editor. I recused myself from that taping. There are, to my knowledge, only five people that I fear may cause me to lose control enough to become (progressively) embarrassed, fired, arrested or executed. O.J Simpson is one; the second is the absolutely execrable Ted Rall, and the final three are Michael Moore.
Besides, my normally straightforward colleagues broke the news that he would be a guest on the show in the same way you might tell someone young and full of life that they have only three days to live. Me and Mike have more than an oil and vinegar thing going; it's more particle / anti-particle. I have dedicated my life to fighting everything he stands for. I would correct those who have said I am the anti-Michael Moore. I deeply appreciate the sentiment, but the fact is, he is the anti-Bill Whittle.
He is a great TV guest however.
Funny, self-deprecating, animated, interesting. Today I first saw the raw footage preparatory to commencing my Dark Arts. Since I have about an hour of raw tape on Mike, I toyed with the idea of taking an hour or two and editing a little two-minute movie of MM telling us what a great and good man George W. Bush is. A decent editor can string together a funny series of quotes in this manner. A really good editor ' and forgive me this little vanity, but I am a really good editor ' can do it in such a way that it does not look funny at all. It is completely seamless.
Michael Moore is a really good editor. Just watching the trailer for Fahrenheit 9/11, I could see all the techniques: the judicious cutaway before the smile that shows the speaker is joking, the juxtaposition of two images to suggest a third, completely new thought or emotion'that sort of thing.
[By the way: during the 1920's. Sergei Eisenstein ' shown above in this undated audition photo for Eraserhead ' and other Soviet filmmakers found themselves critically short of motion picture film (not to mention bread, toilet paper, electricity, and happiness ' this was The Big State At Work, remember.) Sergei and his truly brilliant fellow filmmakers had nothing to do but play with editing by re-cutting old films. They just took some hoary old silent classics and re-cut them again and again, trying to make them say something different. They would also experiment, by taking a shot of a man staring into the camera with absolutely no expression on his face whatsoever, and intercutting it with pictures of a sumptuous feast. When shown to an unsuspecting audience, every person in the theater later dutifully reported on how hungry the man looked. When the exact same head shot was cut against gauzy photos of a beautiful young woman, the audience remarked on how lonely he seemed. And so on.
In this society, with the visual language we all now speak, a citizen who does not understand the power of the cut is likely to be taken, and taken badly, by the likes of Michael Moore and me.]
Anyway, Michael was up to form in many ways, and I will now give you a very brief preview of a few things he said. I remember them very clearly. They are seared into my memory ' seared, I say, in a manner reminiscent of John Kerry's Christmas in Cambodia. I remember them because I just spent the afternoon like Pippin looking into the Palantir: horrified, appalled, and unable to look away:
Somewhere in the middle of the deeply, deeply sincere protestations that he hates controversy, and that the very idea of politicizing the Oscars is deeply, deeply distasteful to him, and that only at the very last minute did any idea of saying something nasty ever occur to him, Michael told what he considers the lesson of the election.
The lesson of the election ' pay attention ' is that the Republicans won because they had a compelling story to tell. 'Never mind if it's fiction,' said Michael. (I am only quoting from memory here, so it will be burned-neuron verbatim, believe me. His voice is echoing in my head like the endless fugue of screams and rudely spat-out cries of Sex Dwarf! in that classic old Soft Cell song ' pure, unadulterated nightmare fuel.)
The (remember, fictional!) Republican story of the election, he said, voice deepening in faux drama, as if being sold to children at bedtime, was as follows:
Out of the ashes of September 11th, rose a man who stood upon the rubble of Lower Manhatten, with a bullhorn in his hand, and said "I will protect you, and you will never'be attacked...again."
And the people were never'attacked'again. And everyone lived happily ever after.
Now I listened to this, and my first thought was: And what part of that story was fictional, you son of a bitch? That sounds just exactly like what happened to me.
'What was the Democrats story?' he asks. Peter Guber comes up with my answer: 'He changed it so many times no one knew.' Mike agrees, but that's not his point. Kerry's story, he says, was 'I'm not Bush.' That's not a story, says Michael Moore: that's a tagline. They got 57 million votes with a tagline! It's a miracle, really, if you look at it a certain way. Of course, if you look at it another way, it's just another page in 25 years of presidential defeats for Democratic candidates not named William Jefferson Clinton.
There then followed some general muttering that, when all is said and done, John Kerry may not have been the greatest candidate to ever grace these sacred shores. 'Now that the election is over, let's be honest.' Sure, why not. Now's as good a time to start as any, Mike.
Now Michael starts to get religion! He balls his hands into small fists, peeling off the points. What the Republicans don't want the Democrats to know ' all you Democrats, please leave the room! ' is that the secret to electoral success is that America loves Hollywood! Americans just love actors so much, we common folk hold them in such high esteem, that we'll go for just about anything they've got! 'Where is our Arnold?' implores Mr. Moore. Mike, and presumably many other liberals, want to know exactly this.
(Note to Terry McAuliffe: Please, please don't throw a Martin Sheen / Ben Affleck ticket at us Jesuslanders! We'd have no response! Our celebrilicious genes would take over and we'd be paralyzed to resist! The election would go Dem in a cakewalk! Dear God, Terry ' anything but that!)
Then Michael Moore said something that was accidentally interesting. The Republicans run actors all the time! They know it's the ticket to success!
Then he listed them: Ronald Reagan' And, to be honest, I must here confess that I honestly thought that the moment that Michael Moore even started to mention the Rea' in 'Reagan' -- in other words, the instant God was sure he wasn't about to casually mention something else on his mind ' Ronald McDonald, say ' then he would suddenly burst into flames and wither into a smelly, burning pile of microwaved cheese. If there is a God, he does not watch much TV -- that much we can be certain of.
But the list of Republican actors turned successful politicians continued: Ronald Reagan. Arnold. That guy from The Love Boat. Fred Thompson. Sonny Bono'
Republicans know the secret to getting elected is to run an actor. Where are the liberal actors? Hollywood needs to find some and out them on the ticket.
Yes, where, where in the name of all that is Holy, can one find a liberal actor in Hollywood?
Anyway, this got me to thinking. There are only eight conservative actors in the history of Hollywood, and five of them have been elected to high office. (The sixth was elected president of the National Rifle Association, the seventh was elected Mayor of Carmel, California on a pro-business platform, and John Wayne had the class to never run for ' or from ' anything.) If, as my precisely scientific calculations show, liberal actors outnumber conservative ones by a ratio of 37,454.7 to 1, then where, indeed, are the elected liberal actors? Michael's plea does make a species of sense for a change. Why are there no liberal actors elected to high public office?
I have a theory as to why the liberals have no 'Arnold. ' Our Arnold ' you know, the Arnold' is pro-business, pro-self-reliance and unabashedly, gloriously patriotic. This is a man who fessed up on national television to being smitten with Richard Nixon because he sounded anti-Communist. Arnold has seen real communists, as opposed to say, leading liberal Presidential wish fetish Warren Beatty, who has played one on the Silver Screen. Somehow, we poor, dim Americans ' remember, Michael Moore loves to tell overseas audiences that the stupidest Canadian / Briton / German / Frenchman / Burkino Fasoan is smarter than the brightest American ' we poor, simple-minded, drooling morons somehow think that Arnold's vision of an America opposed to real Communists is somehow a more compelling story than that of millionaire pampered playboy Warren Beatty's misty-eyed view of them as a nation of daring, romantically doomed poet-philosophers in Reds. Or Blues, I suppose we should say, now that some kid in the 2000 CBS election results graphics department decided to reverse the natural order of things and call the most conservative parts of the country red states.
May I quote Don Rickles? Way to go, you Hockey Puck.
Message to Mr. Moore, from the Peanut Gallery behind the electronic vale: You are the Left's Arnold. The Left can't field a candidate who's an actor because every single leftist actor on the planet sounds like the editorial columnist for Pravda circa 1963. You know where your Progressive Arnold is? It's you, boyo. You perfectly encapsulate the rabid anti-Americanism that Hollywood adores, and that has stolen the heart from a once-proud party. By all means, run to Hollywood in the future. Surely, a nation as stupid as you claim us to be, will buy anything with George Clooney's or Julia Robert's face on it, right? God, I would like to see that particular theory put to the test: preferably seven or eight times ' at least as often as Communist governments have collapsed ' just to make sure it was 'done right.'
Two other brief points:
First, look back on that list of conservative actors Michael Moore named. Who knows what they all have in common?
Anyone? Buehler?
That's right! Person right there in the back row!
They're all really terrible actors. (Okay, except for Clint, but he's probably more Libertarian than Republican anyway.)
Sure, they can hack their way through a scene as the tough guy... Oh, who am I kidding: Sonny Bono and the Love Boat guy can't even do that. But can they handle Hamlet? No, they cannot, which reminds me of one last conservative actor, and that is Mel Gibson.
No, some are great movie stars, but generally speaking they're miserable actors. But in person, truly great personalities. Which tends to confirm a theory of mine, which is that people who are really terrific actors are some of the most boring, colorless, hollow people you would ever be unfortunate enough to meet. I have met a few, and by and large they are simply empty vessels into which better, brighter people ' the scientific term for them is writers ' pour intelligence, wit, courage and character. That's why these fictional creations are called characters. They're the people actors want to be ' but due to some defect, some lack of inherent character, these people cannot go out and actually become such people: soldiers, astronauts, cowboys ' you know, interesting people. People they make movies about. Actors have to pretend to be them. Actually, first writers have to pretend to be them, then the actor takes these written-down make-believe instructions and then adds their own Eye Crinkles, Thoughtful Stares and Charming, Boyish Grins and viola! It's a lot easier than actually becoming such a person, so you must admire the strategy, at least from a conservation of energy point of view.
There is very little in our safe, sanitary, prosperous world more disappointing than listening to an in-depth interview with a favorite celebrity and discovering, to our growing then endless dismay, that there is a long, long, looooooong way between Gillian Anderson and Dana Sculley. Or to see how far Jack Ryan is from Alec Baldwin. Or from Ben Affleck.
No, these conservative actors did not get elected because they were great actors. They got elected because they grew up. They all went out and had to deal with reality, and the possibility that things might not turn out according to the script. They had the guts to run, which means they had the guts to risk losing.
You know. Being unpopular and all.
I think that there are no liberal actors being elected because none of them have the inner character to take that risk ' the risk of unscripted reality. The great actors just don't seem to have the chops off the set. If someone has a better explanation, I am, in the words of Ross Perot, all ears.
A last swipe to drown my pain:
Jon Stewart's name was mentioned as a possible candidate, and Michael Moore, the man who endorsed Howard Dean until he imploded, then Wesley Clark until he fizzled, followed by John Kerry until he'uh'lost, endorsed the idea of a Jon Stewart candidacy. 'People would vote for him,' said this incredible political visionary.
Now to his credit, Jon Stewart seems to think the very idea of him holding serious office a joke. But here's what I don't find so funny: Stewart uses The Daily Show to routinely mock and belittle not just the hard and dirty work in Iraq, but to mock earnestness pretty much everywhere. That's his right of course. In fact, it's his job.
But when I watched him mocking the Freedom Medals given to Paul Bremer and Tommy Franks for being the creators of the debacle, the fiasco, the catastrophe, the quagmire of Iraq, I suddenly said to myself here is a man who has people to style his hair, do his makeup, light him in a flattering way, write clever lines for him to say, edit out his gaffes, missteps, and just plain screw-ups. He lives in the center of an environment so controlled and rehearsed and scripted that those of you who have not seen the Hollywood Machine in action up close cannot fully imagine it.
Jon Stewart can mock Tommy Franks and Paul Bremer and George Bush because he, like Michael Moore, has the luxury of not having to come up with something better. He does not have to make a gas station profitable, he doesn't have to run a farm. He certainly never has to face the messy uncertainty and compromise and setbacks that an aircraft designer, say, or even a football coach has to deal with. And I dare say that he and Alec and Susan and Barbra and Sean would grind to a smoking, screeching mental halt if they had to confront the kind of responsibility, uncertainty, and just plain risks that our men and women in the military face each and every day. All Jon Stewart has to do is sit there, look into the camera, and say something that he or someone else has usually had hours or days to think of. He, like Michael Moore, and unlike George Bush, has a quick tongue and can turn a pithy phrase. They can criticize, belittle and mock the earnest, often messy and sometimes disastrous policies and actions of better people, better because they actually produce policies and actions rather than use then as a laugh line to grow their multi-million dollar bank accounts.
And Michael Moore thinks such people are the salvation of the Democrats. That's what passes for ideas on the far left these days: run celebrities for ' Moore actually used the term ' 'the masses.'
That's not good enough. Not for reality. I'll take good character, over a good characterization, any day.
You can catch the whole thing and make up your own mind: SUNDAY MORNING SHOOTOUT airs Sunday morning, January 23 on AMC. Check listings for local times. Just remember this: I watch Michael Moore so that you don't have to. The BUY SILENT AMERICA button is at the top of the page, to the right. Shower me with love and money; all negative comments will be pre-emptively deleted by My People so as not to offend My Delicate Sensibilities. That's why I came to Hollywood, after all.
Welcome to the Eject! Eject! Eject! commenter community. Please read and understand the following:
1. This is not a public square. This is a dinner party on personal property. Good conversation is not only tolerated but celebrated here. But the host understands the difference between dissent and disrespect, even if you do not. Louts will be ignored until the bouncers can show them the door.
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Now let's see some distributed intelligence and basic human decency! Don't make me come down there every five minutes!
Comments
Bill,
Unlike Mr. Moore, you will probably edit this program like the professional you are, and make that fat jerk look better than he is.
And that is what seperates us from them- we can act like adults.
Good stuff.
Posted by: Mr. Blue | January 7, 2005 1:42 AM
WRT conservative actors: Jerry Doyle (formerly of Babylon 5 and now a talk-show host) is a conservative, I believe. Not a "great actor," but an actor nonetheless.
But perhaps on point with your post: before going into acting, Doyle was a corporate pilot, then a stockbroker/investment banker. In other words, he had real-life accomplishments under his belt.
He ran for Congress as a Republican in Malibu in '00 and lost (of course) - but he had the cojones to try. Character beats characterization, indeed.
And.. thanks for watching MM so I won't have to. I don't think my stomach could take it.
Posted by: Russ | January 7, 2005 2:14 AM
Bill,
If you don't want to meet Moore in person (can't blame you there) how about a clay-mation match up on Celebrity Deathmatch?
Russ,
When listing Jerry Doyle's acheivements, you forgot to list being married to Andrea Thompson. Yowza! If it was me that would be the first thing on my resume.
Posted by: Frank M. | January 7, 2005 3:34 AM
I'm currently reading Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Man concurrently with Silent America.
Heh, heh...I'm proving to be rather a pain to all the lefties at work. I keep quoting bits of your book at them.
Anyway, Moore is a genius. I couldn't sell my soul to do what he does, but you have to respect him as an entrepreneur. Nonetheless, the people that are handing over their money to make him rich are a fine bunch of pillocks.
Yep, I'm ready to nominate you as an honorary Aussie...and you can take that as a compliment.
Posted by: Al Bundy | January 7, 2005 3:45 AM
Bill,
You really should make that edit. You could send it to Brit Hume. It would be funny to see it on the air.
Posted by: pndragon | January 7, 2005 5:27 AM
Hell, just put it on the blogosphere and you'll get 10 times the coverage. PLUS I bet the feature would be on Snopes in no time as many people would, just like they did with F9/11, buy it at face value and it would turn into an Urban Myth.
I'd just worry about the lawsuits. Moore can't take what he can dish out (unless it's stroganoff, then he can take several platefulls).
Posted by: Sharp as a Marble | January 7, 2005 5:55 AM
Bill, thanks for stepping in front of that bullet. I have watched sections of his movies, and have yet to pay anything for them. It's not much, but I have promised myself to never spend one dime that would support him. I have read the transcripts of his shows, so that I know what he is trying to say, so I am exposed to that much, anyway.
My daughter wanted to bring MMs movies into the house. Told her she wants to rent them, she can rent a house to watch them in.
Sapper Mike
Posted by: Sapper Mike | January 7, 2005 5:56 AM
Tom Selleck.
Posted by: Benjamin DeKraker | January 7, 2005 6:56 AM
I'm a recent reader of your site, and enjoy the thoughts and reading. I'm usually not a commenting-type person (for online stuff anyway), but I must say I found this mini-essay shocking.
You mean to say that most of people who spend their time working (in the words of Mr. Rogers) "in the land of Make-Believe" are just empty suits who have never really had to do any critical thinking or decision-making themselves.
I find such revelations simply shocking. ;)
Anyway, great reading.
Posted by: Chris | January 7, 2005 7:13 AM
Actually, that NRA president guy did handle Hamlet: http://imdb.com/title/tt0116477/fullcredits
Posted by: KZC | January 7, 2005 7:17 AM
Jerry Doyle may not be a great actor, but he's certainly better than Baldwin or As.. I mean Affleck.
They way he got into acting is, I think, very telling of the kind of guts he has.
He had no prior experience whatsoever, made up a phony agent's name and a resume, and went to the audition. Landed the job then and there.
Posted by: Sam Muldia | January 7, 2005 7:32 AM
Most actors are empty vessels, and that's why I still enjoy Julia Roberts, laugh at Jennifer Aniston, and admire the good looks of George Clooney. These actors have a great talent for making a character come to life, and their personal views don't change my opinion of their abilities. Ian MacKellan is a blazing leftie. Should I boycott LOTR? I think not.
I'm not really sure that most actors are really lefties, anyway. In order to make it in Hollywood you have to attract media attention (leftist) and be cast into movies by producers (leftist) so if you dare to present yourself as a conservative, how are you going to succeed?
The people I despise are the producers -- like Michael Moore -- and directors like Steven Speilberg, who walked past concentration camp fencing on his way to kiss Castro's hand.
If producers and directors were conservative, Julia Roberts would be a lifetime NRA member and dance with Karl Rove at the Inagural Ball. Am I wrong?
Posted by: Bonnie | January 7, 2005 7:45 AM
Bonnie, I think you're right on the money... those "empty suits" have no sense of self because they believe too much of their own press. I too have been able to ignore their bleating and enjoy their movies; I didn't even think about Viggo Mortensen's ravings on how Bush was Sauron when watching ROTK, either in the theater or last week... hmmm... that just occurred to me...
Bill, if this is your idea of posting "stupid things like this" in response to your New Year's Resolution, well, 2005 will be a treat for us all. I agree MM wouldn't have the cajones (if you could find them... ewww) to have *himself* edited in the same manner he edits others... which is what I told myself when his only demand to be interviewed by O'Reilly during the DNC was that it not be edited. I knew that HE knew the power of editing... and he'd never allow himself to be manipulated and shamed in turn.
Posted by: hindmost | January 7, 2005 8:04 AM
Interesting that you note just how much of Moore's talent for propaganda comes from his skill in the editing room. He certainly did get a good bargain on that clause of his contract with Satan.
Jerry Doyle's a good example of another conservative actor. As is (and I can't believe you forgot him...especially with the "Anyone? Bueler?" reference) Ben Stein, although his involvement in politics was in the form of (of course) writing.
Posted by: Matt | January 7, 2005 9:09 AM
Liberal actors elected? Of course!
Don't you remember that lady that played Ms. Hathaway on "The Berverly Hillbillies?" She later was elected mayor of some flyspect Brie&Chablis California hamlet!
Posted by: Joel | January 7, 2005 9:18 AM
8 conservative actors in the history of Hollywood?
Lemme give it a go ...
Charlton Heston
Tom Selleck
Arnold Schwarzenegger
uh, apparently, that Jerry Doyle guy
Heather Locklear
Clint Eastwood
that guy from The Love Boat
Sonny Bono
Nailed it!
Posted by: Lewis | January 7, 2005 9:35 AM
Apologies, posted this in an older section.
Hey Bill, have an issue with a few of the books I ordered through PayPal before they were available on Amazon. Could ya shoot me an e-mail when you have a free moment? Tried to e-mail ya with the details but your box is probably flooded, so I figured I'd try here. :) Thanks bud.
Posted by: Jim | January 7, 2005 9:38 AM
Oh, please please please say you made an alternate edit. Or don't, for plausible deniability.
But release it somehow. Give it to FrankJ, he's insane, he'll release it.
Posted by: Andy | January 7, 2005 9:39 AM
Dude -
I would pay actual cash monies to have an edit like the one you describe.
Please produce this work immediately.
I am quite certain that the joy that I and other rational people would feel upon seeing such an edit would be the most effective drug against the disease that is F9/11, ever created.
Posted by: Slim Whitman | January 7, 2005 9:41 AM
James Woods is fairly conservative, IIRC.
Posted by: dodgeman | January 7, 2005 9:45 AM
Sorry troops. That video is the property of my employer. They certainly will not release it. And I don't steal from people, unlike certain other editors I could mention who stole footage of fallen soldiers' military funerals to sharpen his message.
Comes a point where we have to decide if the end justifies the means. Once you violate your own personal sense of ethics on that road, there are no more freeway exits before Auschwitz.
I know that sounds a little maudlin, but I believe it is true.
Posted by: Bill Whittle | January 7, 2005 9:47 AM
Ron Silver.
Posted by: pmh | January 7, 2005 9:47 AM
Judging from the commercials I'm hearing on morning drive-time, both F9/11 and Kinsey are getting HEAVILY plugged for Best Picture.
And The Passion?
doubleplusungoodthink.
doubleplusungood refs unevents.
doubleplusungood refs unpersons.
memhole.
oceania has always been at war with eastasia.
bush is goldstein.
Posted by: Ken | January 7, 2005 9:47 AM
Great post!
And, in case you missed it, get a copy of the Jay Leno episode with Michael Moore. It aired about a month ago and, trust me, it was the exact same speech!
You could have some fun cutting and clipping those shows, side by side.
Posted by: jmflynny | January 7, 2005 9:57 AM
Other conservative actors, some of whom just recently exited the liberal closet, are Kelsey Grammer and Gary Sinise. On the other hand, I wouldn't include Fred Thompson in that list. Thompson made his national name first in politics as minority counsel to the Whitewater investigation. He got acting roles due to being in politics, not vice versa.
It's also noteworthy that Arnold didn't make his money in acting. He took the money he won in bodybuilding competitions and shrewdly invested it for great profit. In other words, he is probably the only actor of note that has a fortune that comes from neither family or acting.
Posted by: Zwicker | January 7, 2005 10:03 AM
Doesn't Patricia Heaton belong on the list of conservative actors?
Posted by: A Recovering Liberal | January 7, 2005 10:09 AM
ARL-
Yes, Patricia Heaton is another.
Posted by: Zwicker | January 7, 2005 10:12 AM
Would you consider shoving two Michael Moore's aside to make room for Noam Chomsky and Dhimmi Carter?
Posted by: Aaron's Rantblog | January 7, 2005 10:12 AM
Great piece. Loved it and glad that you took a bullet for all of us.
BTW...when speaking of "that actor from Loveboat" are you referring to Gavin McLeod who played Captain Stubing??
Posted by: canadiandud | January 7, 2005 10:17 AM
I just noticed that i typed my user name as "CanadianDUD" instead of the "CanadianDUDE" that I wanted. Boy, talk about a freudian slip! I am still laughing at myself!! :-)
Posted by: canadiandude | January 7, 2005 10:19 AM
Just a little thought about the pitch for Silent America. I remember years ago of a similar phrase "the silent majority". If the bleeping people can't give voice to their integrity they deserve what they get.
In the same vein, there is a famous quote which goes: "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Let me set the idea straight: There is no such thing as good people who do nothing. Good is an active virtue, not passive. Apathy is not good. Thinking good thoughts is nice, but it is turning them to action that is truly good.
People out there who wait for people like Whittle who do something and raise their voice to the likes of Michael More may want to consider taking the risks of getting out there and making so much reasonable noise that no one will hear people like Michael Moore.
If his voice is all that fills the silence, its is because you aren't out their competing with it.
Froggy
Posted by: Froggy (LGF registered) | January 7, 2005 10:21 AM
My Michael Moore Moment. Like you I loathe the “man”.
I work in downtown Boston and during the DNC I was out trolling for arguments during my lunch hour each day that week. At that point, nothing much, a few "f**k you's" to some young Kerry campaign workers and Code Pinkos. Not quite satisfying as I was looking for some International ANSWER types or Black Tea Society anarchists.
On the final day of the convention, after another fruitless mission, as I was walking back to my office I noticed a crowd gathered outside a local restaurant. Whispers in the crowd indicated that Hillary was inside. Turns out it was a party thrown by Tina Brown for some Dem big shots. So I decided to hang out and wait for Hillary to emerge.
Suddenly someone screamed adoringly, "It's Michael Moore!" This is the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts, so the crowd was giddy with delight and erupted with applause. As I turned around, there he was and he walked right past me crossed the street and went into the restaurant. God, was he huge! And smelly! In the same clothes.
So as he approached me and after I briefly contemplated punching his ugly face in (30 years martial arts training having restrained me), I laid into him as loud as I could.
"You f**king fat f*gg*t!"
"You f**king liar!"
“F**king traitor!”
Man, that felt great! I was elated. The people around me, mostly female office workers were aghast and drew back from me as though I had leprosy. You could tell by the look on their faces they were thinking, “My God! A Republican! In Boston, on this most holy of weeks?”
Flush with my first big heckle, I decided to wait for a while longer. Then out of the restaurant came Gray Davis. Not a big fish, but I gave him a few "Ah-nold, Ah-nold" shouts and a "Girly-man" thown in for good measure.
Then some guy says to me, "Ok, that's enough."
So I say, "Isn’t this America? Don't I have free speech?"
"Yeah, but you've made your point. Be nice"
"What? Is there a limit?"
"You've made your point"
"That's your opinion. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one"
"Did you call me an asshole? Come over here"
He grabs my arm (turns out he's a cop) and another uniformed cop joins him to force me away from the crowd. They ask for my ID, which I present.
"Nobody calls me an asshole"
So I apologize and they let me go after running my name through their computer looking for some excuse to arrest me. As they walk away I yelled, "More crushing of dissent in the Cradle of Liberty! Is this a police state? Did you see those Gestapo tactics?" Then the uniformed cop comes back and warns me, politely, that if I persist in my behavior they were going to arrest me for disturbing the peace. So realizing that I might just be pushing their limit, I relented and left. I didn’t want to be the guy arrested for heckling Gray Davis.
Ah, life in America. It doesn't get any better than this.
Sorry for the long post.
Posted by: nobody important | January 7, 2005 10:31 AM
Bo Derek is another. Although "actor" is a VERY loose term here.
Posted by: Ghost of Dudley Moore | January 7, 2005 10:35 AM
Chuck Norris - another not-so-good conservative actor (but, boy could he fight!)
Posted by: Fatal | January 7, 2005 10:36 AM
Kelsey Grammer, no kidding, and apparently all of the following:
Andy Garcia, Gary Sinise, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris, LL Cool J, Freddie Prinze Jr. and Sarah Michelle Gellar, Dennis Miller, Denzel Washington, Robert Duvall, Catherine Bell, Danny Aiello, James Earl Jones, Ron Silver, Morgan Brittany, Ben Stein, Pat Boone, Kathy Ireland, Rick Schroeder and Bo Derek.
Posted by: ben | January 7, 2005 10:38 AM
Mmmm - Kathy Ireland- mmmmmm (drools)
Posted by: Fatal | January 7, 2005 10:41 AM
Where Republicans have actors, Democrats have comedians: Franken, Moore, Stewart. The problem for the Democrats is that a majority of voters get the joke.
Posted by: Luther | January 7, 2005 10:45 AM
I've been told that Ashley Judd is conservative, but I got this second-hand, so I can't vouch for it.
Andrea Thompson married a conservative? If I'd known our sort had a chance with her!
Also: so due to your Resolution, we can look forward to more of this every week? Honest and for true?
Wow. Best Christmas present this Jew ever got. :-)
Posted by: Kadorienne | January 7, 2005 11:06 AM
I have a friend I first met as a seventeen year old who is a well-known actress in Canada and in fact in the French speaking world. It was not too many years ago that I realized that while I had changed because of my years of life experience, she was exactly the same as when we first became acquainted. It was then I decided that actors and actresses do their living on the stage. While they are able to represent diversity and maturity through some subconscious process in their roles, they themselves are like insects frozen in amber. My friend is still a twenty-one year old in spite of her calendar age.
Posted by: Millie Woods | January 7, 2005 11:07 AM
Sir!
Great story. **DO** make the edit, even if only for the enjoyment of your co-workers. Maybe MM would enjoy it, too:
"Michael,
Thanks for being on the show. Here's a gag-reel you should enjoy."
Posted by: Ranten.N.Raven | January 7, 2005 11:25 AM
Did anyone mention Tom Selleck or Miguel Ferrer? (saw the latter on Miller where he said he generally kept quiet about hisright-wing leanings because he wanted to work - Selleck has also, I believe, been candid about the chill conservative actors face.)
Posted by: CMP | January 7, 2005 11:29 AM
"I don't think being a magna cum laude from Harvard was anywhere near as valuable as being Gopher on the Love Boat." Actor and ex-congressman Fred Grandy, explaining the Hollywood advantage when running for political office.
And Angie Hartman from Law & Order
Posted by: Rachel | January 7, 2005 11:30 AM
Sarah Michelle Gellar and her husband (Freddie Prinze Jr.) are conservatives??? No way!
But if it's true, Buffy the Vampire Slayer for President in 2016! (She's not old enough now...)
Do singers count? Jessica Simpson is conservative, which makes it likely that hubby Nick Lachey is, too. Hoku also might be a conservative--I saw her singing "Shout to the Lord" at her church in Hawaii and talking about her faith and morals on some Disney program, which makes it likely that she is.
Posted by: Illyria | January 7, 2005 11:37 AM
The Michael Moores, the Jon Stewarts and all their ilk, are the critics of whom Teddy Roosevelt so eloquently and devastatingly spoke:
Posted by: Chuck McKinnon | January 7, 2005 11:42 AM
Bill: Any chance your employer would be willing to make the entire footage available for news purposes. Then anyone (yourself included) could make the Michael Moore of Michael Moore. I presume Moore signed off on the whole take, right? It can't hurt a company to make the whole taping available. The NRA only wishes 60 minutes would make its whole tape of THEIR interview available, to show how they were Michael Moored. Reputable shows OUGHT to make the full footage available.
Posted by: Alec Rawls | January 7, 2005 11:52 AM
Although it hardly diminishes the impact of Bill's latest essay, I can think of at least one liberal actor who has actually been elected to something. Sheila Kuehl, California's first openly gay state senator, played Zelda Gilroy on "The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis" back in the day. Of course, after her TV career, she went on to Harvard Law School and became a law professor, so she's got more content to her character (for good or ill) than the "empty vessels" Bill is talking about. I also had some dealings with her in connection with the California energy crisis of 2000/01, and while she and I disagree vehemently about the causes and solutions, I found her to be considerably more forthright and intellectually honest than the other Democrats involved.
Posted by: Chinaberry Tree | January 7, 2005 11:53 AM
Don't you remember that lady that played Ms. Hathaway on "The Berverly Hillbillies?" She later was elected mayor of some flyspect Brie&Chablis California hamlet!
Nancy Kulp sunk her life savings into a losing Congressional campaign in Pennsylvania. But more importantly, she was a runner-up in a 1967 Emmy category (can't remember which) for her role as Jane Hathaway, losing out to Shirley Booth in her role as "Hazel".
Posted by: Tongueboy | January 7, 2005 11:57 AM
With respect I must disagree with your assertion. There are more conservatives than you mentioned and liberal actors are not as vapid as you describe. I think it's more accurate to say that liberal actors are not able to empathize with normal people struggling to succeed who are conservative rather than liberal. Actors have an innate charisma that they were given as a gift when they were born. It either gives them an inflated sense of their self-worth and what others owe them or they feel guilty and assume great success comes with some innate "advantage" (like theirs) that must be combatted to make life "fair" for those who are less successful.
Again, respectfully, I think you were just laying down a stream of consciousness that doesn't really hold water. Like I just did.
Posted by: Joshua Godinez | January 7, 2005 12:20 PM
I was going to name other conservative actors, but y'all beat me to it.
Don't watch it, so you may ge right. Or did you mean Angie Harmon from Crossing Jordan?(If there's an Angie Hartman, then we've got 2 more. :-D)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut | January 7, 2005 12:24 PM
I'm actually looking forward to Michael Moore's treatment of the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries, which is rumored to be his next film. There's nobody right or left who doesn't admit that those government-coddled industries aren't far too screwed up. And with the boomers about to retire, well, I'm sure I'll hate it but it will serve a purpose.
Where would we be without vigorous debate? Until people start getting hurt, the more vigorous the better.
I can't see a Republican making much more than an infomercial, frankly, about the health care crisis.
Posted by: d2s | January 7, 2005 12:31 PM
President Bush is another example of celebrity president. He is the son of a famous celebrity, carrying his name and a fairly strong resemblance.
Does anyone doubt that he would have lost in 2000 but for his famous name?
Of course "Gore" is also a fairly famous political name. But far less so than "Bush" or "Kennedy".
Posted by: Leonard | January 7, 2005 12:31 PM
Who was that woman who did all the official documentaries for the Nazi party in the 1930's?
Moore reminds me of her, only with more curves (yecch).
Posted by: Ajalonvox | January 7, 2005 12:39 PM
Actually you're both half right. It's Angie Harmon from Law & Order
Posted by: LibraryGryffon | January 7, 2005 12:53 PM
Your comments about John Stewart nearly had me in tears - not laughing ones, but because I'm so glad to hear someone else say it. He criticizes constantly from his platform of doing nothing much. I stopped watching him while Hubby was in Iraq for that reason.
I'm not surprised that Gary Sinise is conservative (or at least not a raving Sean Penn liberal), he actually goes out to make the world a better place. You know, adopting schools in Iraq? Things like that, rather than the Penn style of sightseeing.
I saw Denzel Washington go after Meryl Streep on an NBC interview for her mischaracterization of bible verse. Guess someone forgot to tell her he's a preacher's kid.
Posted by: militarybrat | January 7, 2005 12:58 PM
Robert Duval?
I have also heard, believe it or not, that the guy that played the "other" biker with Peter Fonda in Easy Rider is somewhat conservative.
Posted by: Joe Dromedary | January 7, 2005 1:03 PM
d2s
Vigorous debate is fine and dandy as long as it is fueled by fact.
Nothing in MM's resume has ever passed any kind of fact checking. When he is pressed on these matters he then claims that he makes comedies not documentaries.
Sophisticated editing of selected text is propaganda.
Posted by: jreid | January 7, 2005 1:11 PM
I'm probably wrong, but I thought Bruce Willis was a conservative and/or Republican.
Posted by: NullIsland | January 7, 2005 1:39 PM
Chuck Norris may not be the best actor in the land, but his contribution may be that he trains other actors for action roles and is general a great guy. How on earth could one not admire a 12th degree (or whatever he is) blackbelt. He some Grand Master something.
Not an actor, but Sammay Hagar is a republican too!
Posted by: Shelley | January 7, 2005 1:43 PM
Andy Garcia?
Poor fella. I can't imagine the hell of working with those wackos on the Oceans film. Even in the publicity stints, all they could talk about was there love of Kerry.
Meanwhile, Andy just sat there being gracious, and kept his mouth shut.
Posted by: jmflynny | January 7, 2005 2:30 PM
Another singer, Kid Rock is a republican. Before the election he was with some other celebs and they all wanted to go see F9/11 he tried to talk them out of it and went to a bar instead while they went to the movie. He left a note that said something to the effect 'Moore sucks, Bush Rocks. Vote Bush'.
Posted by: Peter | January 7, 2005 2:30 PM
Let's instead list the elected liberal actors. That would be every liberal official. Because, if they're as smart as they tell us they are, then they can't possibly believe the drivel that they espouse.
Posted by: Jeff | January 7, 2005 2:33 PM
Ted Nugent!! I know he's not an "actor" per se. I read that he admires the President so much that he is buying property in Crawford, TX.
Posted by: Sherri | January 7, 2005 2:33 PM
Charlton Heston won the Academy Award for Best Actor in Ben Hur. He wasn't the best actor of the century, but certainly during in his heyday, he was considered a fine one.
I've been interested to know why Heston's acting opportunities were suddenly reduced to B-level scripts during the 60's and 70s and finally down to nothing at all. Could his history of taking public stands on conservative issues have placed him on the Hollywood blacklist? (That's the other famous blacklist, the one that Hollywood won't admit they created during the 60s in order to punish right wing actors by excluding them from the movie business.)
Posted by: Ariana | January 7, 2005 2:46 PM
There's a decent list of conservatives at http://celiberal.com/theRighties.php. Some, such as James Earl Jones, are not conservatives but have publicly taken a conservative position. (Note that militarily deposing Saddam is a "classic liberal" position, as opposed to the knee-jerk "opposition liberal" positions so prominent today.)
Some others not posted in these comments:
Kevin Costner, Kurt Russell, Bruce Willis, John Malkovich, Dennis Franz, and (of course!) R. Lee Ermey.
And the South Park guys (Matt Stone and Trey Parker) famously declared while receiving a Hollywood award that they're Republicans.
Posted by: Jeff | January 7, 2005 3:02 PM
Right Brain/Left Brain Dominance.
Logical vs. Intuitive
Verbal vs. Non-verbal
Reality vs. Fantasy
Linear vs. Holistic
It's sometimes difficult to think about R/Brain L/Brain because we are so programmed to the political terminology of Left and Right, which is the opposite...L/Brained people are on the Right politically, while R/Brained people are on the Left politically.
But the point for this discussion is, more R/Brained people are going to seek and succeed at professions in the arts, and these people will also more likely be on the Left politically.
While there are always exceptions to the rule, I agree with Bill that Leftist artists tend to be better artists than those on the Right. They are programmed to be more emotional than logical, which is why I sometimes just have to suck it up, and buy that new Sheryl Crow CD because, dammit, she's awsome!
To add to the list of Left Brain/Conservative celebrities: Alice Cooper, Neil Pert (Rush), and Joe Perry (I think... he hangs with Terrible Ted and hunts on his ranch a lot now that he's sober).
And as a reminder we humans refuse to be neatly categorized, Gene Simmons of KISS. If it is possible to be hyper-dominant on both sides of the brain at the same time, this is the guy.
Posted by: tillUrDizzy | January 7, 2005 4:13 PM
Shelley,
10th is as high as they go. Norris is a Grandmaster, but I'm not sure of his exact rank.
At that level, it really doesn't matter.
Posted by: Iron Fist | January 7, 2005 5:14 PM
I think James Wood said he isn't a conservative or Republican, but he's pro-Iraq war and the War on Terror. That'd make him more like Glenn Reynolds.
jmflynny wrote "get a copy of the Jay Leno episode with Michael Moore. It aired about a month ago and, trust me, it was the exact same speech!"
According to the zap2it.com tv listings, Moore is on Leno again tonight, Jan. 7, but it isn't a repeat.
Posted by: Jim C. | January 7, 2005 5:42 PM
Lately, I've been noticing that there's actually two Mikeys. The "funny, self-deprecating, reasonable" Mikey who showed up for Sunday Morning Shootout and who was also seen clean-shaven and wearing a suit and tie on Jay Leno a while back.
Then there's the "snarling angry moonbat" Mikey you can see in the insane rants he posts on his website and also some interviews with local newspapers where everything is "f--- this" and "f--- that".
As to which one is the real Mikey, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
Posted by: kgowen | January 7, 2005 5:44 PM
http://www.jerseygop.com/R_babes/index.html
All of these are stanch conservatives. That they are of the female persusion makes it even better.
Posted by: jreid | January 7, 2005 6:17 PM
Hey, I want to comment, but I keep getting this message.
"Your comment was denied; at some point, it matched our blacklist."
Blacklist? Help! What did I do?
Posted by: Kate Fitzsimons | January 7, 2005 6:46 PM
Joel - you're thinking of Nancy Kulp, from the Beverly Hillbillies. But she was never elected. In 84 she sank all her money in a run for congress, Buddy Epson came out against her and she lost.
I think the point is that when you look at actors that have gone on to political careers, they are ALL conservative. Stupid actors are liberals, smart actors that can do other things in life are conservatives. Most smart people look at acting as a very silly thing to do - on average it doesn't pay nearly as well as working at a car wash.
Zwicker - Fred Thompson was a lawyer first, and got his start in acting playing himself in a 1985 Sissy Spacek movie called "Marie." He then acted for years (See "Flight of the Intruder" "Fat Man and Little Boy" "Die Hard 2" "No Way Out" "Days of Thunder") before he went into the Senate. Then back to acting when he retired from politics.
Bill - hypothetically speaking here. Could a skilled editor take what you are going to broadcast of MM, turn it into a 2 minute endorcement of Bush, and release it on the internet? Not the raw footage, mind you, but the stuff that anyone in the world could play with.
Posted by: Richard R | January 7, 2005 6:49 PM
Don't forget Buffy the Vampire Slayer's Emma Caulfield, also known for her Beverly Hills 90210 role.
She has made comments about running for office before.
Posted by: Jim Rockford | January 7, 2005 7:41 PM
Jerry Doyle WAS married to Andrea Thompson. They met and married while both were in B5, and they divorced while he was still at B5, and she had moved on.
I think Mr. Whittle that many of us would benefit a great deal from learning more about how editing affects us. You gave a few examples, but if you devoted a whole essay to it, we'd be better off. Just something to consider..
Posted by: Allison | January 7, 2005 8:08 PM
Here is a link to a comprehensive list of conservative republican celebrities. I don't quite know the criteria but it is a good list of actors, sports figures, musicians, and others. We are not as alone as you may think:
http://www.searchspaniel.com/index.php/List_of_Republican_celebrities
Posted by: ApolloPT | January 7, 2005 11:24 PM
"Charlton Heston won the Academy Award for Best Actor in Ben Hur. He wasn't the best actor of the century, but certainly during in his heyday, he was considered a fine one."
Yes and Mr. Heston earned his props and pissed a lot of people off by marching w/ Dr. M.L. King in the 60's. He's always stood on the right side (correct side) of the issues.
Posted by: jmon | January 8, 2005 3:53 AM
I'm confused... are all these actors listed the good guys or the bad guys? I forget the URL/site/name that had the 6 question political quiz, etc., but I came up 100% at the top point. Not let or right. What does this mean?
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
I am in the box by -6,-5 to -2,-7 -- I guess that's
more left, according to this place.
Am I the enemy?
Confused.
Posted by: confused | January 8, 2005 6:27 AM
surprised that someone hasn't thrown out Tom Hanks and Robin Williams yet. Both are BIG military supporters and I know Robin has done a few USO tours recently.
Posted by: stract | January 8, 2005 7:52 AM
Ajalonvox, do you refer to Leni Riefenstahl?
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0726166/
As much as I dislike frivolous comparison of one's political opposites to the Nazis, I think comparisons between her and Mr. Moore are telling.
Hitler was impressed with a number of German filmmakers and approached them to do propaganda films for the Nazis. Some of them, such as Fritz Lang, subsequently fled to America, but Riefenstahl took the bait and stayed to be the First Lady of documentary films for the Nazi Party. Like Moore, she was the mistress of the judicious edit; she also had considerable directorial and storytelling talents, all of which she flagrantly misused in films such as "Triumph of the Will." Later, when the Third Reich was no longer in power, she tried (unsuccessfully) to step away from her work, claiming she had been used by the Nazis.
Eh-heh.
In her case, I'd say she sold out to outright evil; since I have not yet watched a Michael Moore film, I cannot honestly say if this is also the case with the Shrieking Butter Troll. But from some of the things I've heard he's done, manipulating and tweaking the raw data until it supports his left-wing fever dreams, I'd have to guess he and Leni would get along very well indeed.
Posted by: TPK | January 8, 2005 8:19 AM
Speaking about conservative actors, we should also add:
Bo Derek
Cheryl Ladd
Patricia Heaton
Mel Gibson (sometimes)
Jimmy Stewart
Robert Davi (the villain from Licence to Kill Bond movie)
And there are probably many more but are afraid to come out of the closet because of fear that they be forced to listen, as a punishment, to Barbra Streisand singing.
Posted by: Grace | January 8, 2005 8:21 AM
OK, two more things.
First, to Bill: what happened to half your post? It seems to have evaporated since I first read it yesterday.
Second: I have to take very slight occasion to this remark.
"Out of the ashes of September 11th, rose a man who stood upon the rubble of Lower Manhattan, with a bullhorn in his hand, and said "I will protect you, and you will never... be attacked... again."
And the people were never... attacked... again. And everyone lived happily ever after.
Now I listened to this, and my first thought was: And what part of that story was fictional, you son of a bitch? That sounds just exactly like what happened to me."
While this is a good point, I don't know many Republicans who voted for Bush because they believed he would absolutely keep them safe from another attack. There are just too many variables to keep that from happening, and we are dealing with people who have no problem with the idea of blowing themselves up as a contribution to The Cause.
But.
Should another attack come--and I think one is very likely to come--I prefer to have Bush in charge over some moonbat who believes all that is necessary is to sit down and have a reasoned conversation with people who ram commercial airlines into buildings, send children wired with explosives into crowded markets, and cut off the heads of people with whom they disagree. Bush recognizes who and what we are fighting. Leftists do not.
Posted by: TPK | January 8, 2005 8:38 AM
Ajalonfox - Leni Riefenstahl is the name you're looking for. She made the Hitler propaganda films and spent the rest of her life being blacklisted for it. And a long life it was! I think she died in 2001 or 2002 or thereabouts, at about 250yo or so, still trying to get her work on the 1936 Olympics released.
Posted by: Brendan | January 8, 2005 9:01 AM
OOPS. Just noticed someone beat me to the punch on her frauness, L. Reifenstahl. And to top it off, I misspelled your name. Please accept my apologies.
Posted by: Brendan | January 8, 2005 9:09 AM
To the one who brought up Tom Hanks and Robin Williams: I don't know about Hanks, but Williams is a well-known liberal -- I remember him years ago on the Tonight Show just ripping into Bush (the elder) and Quayle and all their policies.
However, if he's doing USO shows for the troops, kudos to him.
Posted by: kgowen | January 8, 2005 10:01 AM
Actually, Hanks has donated a lot of money to the DNC and in particular, Dianne Feinstein.Also, just keep in mind though, doing USO doesn't say anything about political leanings. Al Franked does USO all the time and nobody would dare call him a conservative/republican.
Tom Hanks source: http://politicalcelebrities.tripod.com/
A little old, but you get the idea.
Posted by: kika_chuck | January 8, 2005 12:10 PM
Typo: Franken not Franked
Posted by: kika_chuck | January 8, 2005 12:29 PM
That list of Republicans at Wikipedia is due for possible deletion.
http://www.searchspaniel.com/index.php/List_of_Republican_celebrities
Must be too upsetting to the moonbats.
Posted by: Shelley | January 8, 2005 5:46 PM
Has anyone else tried to post and got an error blacklist message? I don't know what could be in my info that would make it do that. I have gotten that message everytime including the first time I tried to post here. I have to put in a fake email and I don't like doing that.
Can I get this fixed Bill?
Posted by: Shelley | January 8, 2005 5:51 PM
I recently discussed this very topic with a liberal friend of mine. I asked him if he thought it was a good idea for the Democratic Party to be relying so much on celebrities like Bruce Springsteen and Jon Bon Jovi to get people to vote for the party. He thought I might be expressing a sour grapes opinion since the GOP doesn't have the star power. He then pointed to Arnold and Thompson as examples of Republicans relying on celebrity. I countered that the only Republicans he could cite were all people who got into office by an election, not by party bigwigs handpicking them.
Richard R- My point is that Fred Thompson made a namde for himself in government before entering the acting arena. In fact, I believe it was his role in the Watergate hearings that got someone in Hollywood's attention.
Posted by: Zwicker | January 8, 2005 5:52 PM
Zwicker - nope. He got noticed when he played himself in "Marie." It was a true story, about a woman who worked for the Gov. of Tennassee and witnessed pardons being bought. Thompson represented her, then represented her in the deal when her story was sold to Hollywood. The producers like him and asked him to play himself. He was great on screen, even in that first part.
Posted by: Richard R. | January 8, 2005 8:15 PM
confused - As far as being the "enemy" is concerned, you certainly don't need something like 'Political Compass' to tell you. You largely decide something like that yourself. If you start posting inflammatory comments, especially with little or no substance to them, then people will tend to view you as the enemy, whether you are conservative or liberal.
Remember - Bill is a self-described 'Recovering Liberal'. I'm reasonably sure that he didn't have a 100% changeover of his entire being because of 9/11, mostly the part that had been agreeing with things like moral relativism (which refuses to take a critical look at things that other people do, no matter how horrible they are). From past writings, I suspect that he was not as liberal as many a University Professor, anyway.
So don't worry about being classed as 'the enemy' - people are going to disagree about things, it's more about how they go about it that decides such things, rather than the actual position.
Posted by: WayneB | January 8, 2005 10:46 PM
We also shouldn't forget two of the greatest Hollywood legends who have since passed on: James Stewart and John Wayne.
Posted by: Amber W | January 9, 2005 8:37 AM
Tom Hanks, like Steven Spielberg and Tom Brokaw, is only supportive of and enamored of World War II and it's veterans. Like all good liberal/lefties they believe that WWII was the only time America did anything right. Anything before or since was corrupt, abusive, greedy, wrong. In writing the book "The Greatest Generation" Brokaw very carefully, and in my opinion, deliberately, delineated these very fine, courageous and great Americans as the ONLY "great generation". Not WWI vets, Korean War vets and most certainly not Vietnam War vets.
Posted by: Drugstore Cowgirl | January 9, 2005 9:02 AM
WayneB,
I'm under the impression that Bill is a former liberal (i.e. the text underneath the Welcome graphic on the homepage). His recovery is complete ;^)
Posted by: A Recovering Liberal | January 9, 2005 9:28 AM
There's too much classical liberalism in modern conservatism to define any leftward lean as "the enemy". For that matter, lots of us regard the authoritarian version of conservatism that likes blue laws and other busybodyism as as much the enemy as leftists who think they know what's best for everybody.
Anybody who characterizes their ideological opponents out of hand and as a group as stupid, evil, or both, has not only passed the boundary of fanaticism but is intellectually damned lazy in the bargain.
Note that this does not apply to people who are only interested in mocking. If you don't regard the people you're talking to as worth listening to from the beginning, then all you're doing is the equivalent of teasing animals to see them bark and snarl. In that case, you don't get respect (in the form of reasoned argument instead of a blowoff) because it would be wasted on you.
Note also this is an entirely rhetorical and general "you". If there've been any real trolls so far they've already been deleted. :P
Posted by: LabRat | January 9, 2005 2:36 PM
i suppose i'll mention (again) that while I am an acting student i still have an ability to think and don't fall in line with the leftist tendencies of the theatre world.
in my theatre department at the University of Toledo, i was one of two students out of about fifty or so who voted for Bush. I swear they would have strung us up if they could have. one of the more open-minded of these students reported a quote from the head of our department: "wow, asher does some wonderful things onstage, (whisper) but did you hear he voted for Bush."
I must have the Emporer's New Leprousy, which everyone there can see but me.
Posted by: Asher | January 9, 2005 7:20 PM
Bruce Willis stumped for Bush 41 along with Ah-nold. Gary Oldman is also a conservative, but since he's a Brit that's moot.
Ron Silver is not a conservative - he admitted as much during his great speech during the Republican Convention. But he recognizes the danger of the enemy and is a big Bush supporter. Good for him (maybe he can be converted).
It grieves me to bring up this name, but Kenny G once spoke highly of Jack Ryan's presidential politics in Tom Clancy's "Executive Orders." I don't know if he's applied those ideas to real life.
And Tom Clancy is conservative too, if writers of his stature count as celebs.
Posted by: JCF | January 10, 2005 6:19 AM
To "Kelley" and "Kate Fitzsimons" -- I went back through the Bill's Blacklist "pending" files, all the way back up the comment stream to MY last posting (and believe me, there are THOUSANDS of "pending" posts between then and now, mostly Texas Holdem, Monogrammed Poker Chips, and porn, that are being held in limbo the requisite number of days until they are either "approved" by Bill or myself, or "time out" and vanish), and I did not see any other posts by either of you. So either you posted before MY last posting (in which case let me know, and I'll review further back up the list), or some other glitch has already nixed them, in which case we can only apologize and try to catch it next time before it happens again.
(Presumably you weren't using a screen-name like "Mature Incest" or "Rolexmania" -- I saw a LOT of them in the pending list)
Sometimes I think automated fix-its are more trouble than they're worth.
And LabRat! So good to see you back! You were missed!
And a final note -- the full account of Bill's little cross-country flying adventure is done now, and the pictures are "in the mail" to L.A.. So it should be appearing in a blogsite near you any day now.
GHS
Posted by: GreatHairySilverback | January 10, 2005 7:04 AM
Anybody who characterizes their ideological opponents out of hand and as a group as stupid, evil, or both, has not only passed the boundary of fanaticism but is intellectually damned lazy in the bargain.
Thank you, LabRat! Thank you! This occurs on both sides of the aisle, and I get so freakin' tired of it.
Posted by: A Recovering Liberal | January 10, 2005 7:51 AM
I think Christopher Hitchens said it best, "...speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European...
it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated Europeans.
They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and
ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own, as their representative
American...
someone who actually embodies all of those qualities."
Keep knocking it out of the park Bill!
Posted by: Dave | January 10, 2005 1:24 PM
Thanks, guys. You make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I'm assuming it's you since the dog isn't blowing coat this week.
Posted by: LabRat | January 10, 2005 1:28 PM
Speaking of editing, my sister-in-law showed up with a microphone at a Michael Moore rally at the University of Central Florida last October. You might enjoy the audio at this link
www.courtzero.org/moore.mp3
Posted by: