What's this 4 year stuff? Sure we are stuck with prez Bammo for 4 years, but politics doesn't end, even as we congratulate the winners.

The midterm elections are only 728 days away.

They're already calling it a landslide. Not on the basis of popular votes, but electoral. Unsurprising.

What will be surprising will be if the fundraising and techniques already very successfully employed by the D party in this election don't forever change politics in the US, at least as much as happened in the 1970s.

I'm already hearing folks celebrating saying it's as big a deal as the moon landing. In one sense, the racial, I suppose they're right; and I do hope that "Bradley Effect" cr*p drops a little further down into the can't-we-all-get-along zone, where it ought to be.

I guess we'll see about that, and everything else, won't we?

You are magnanimous in defeat. You shame me but I feel entitled to my grief and anger that U.S. citizens who so readily make their living in a capitalistic society should so easily give it all up in favor of Obama and his socialistic claptrap (having been a socialist, I know one when I see one) and above-his-paygrade smugness. I will never hate him. But I will always hate what he stands for; hate that he and his followers have brought our nation so low that this very night Chavez, Hamas, Hezbollah, Ghadafy, Castro (if he's still above ground), Al—Jazeera, Ahmadinejad, and all our enemies are happy believing one of their own has taken down the Great Satan. The Obamas of this world are the enemies of freedom. I fear for the next 2 years and the 2 following it, but if he is re-elected in 2012, the final four will be horrendous. When I said in 2004 after “The Speech” that Obama would be President someday and maybe the VP candidate under Hillary in 2008, everyone laughed at me. Wish I'd made a million dollar bet with someone. But that wish pales in comparison to the wish that I could wake up tomorrow and find November 4, 2008 had all been a terrible nightmare. I am unutterably sad and broken-hearted for our nation.

Hang in there Lynda. I share your disappointment and a great deal of your fear for our great nation, but there is hope. Even if disaster looms, it is not here yet. The best thing we can do is prepare for it. As Bill mentions near the end of this essay, and as he discussed at length with the rest of the crew over at PJTV, now is the time to regroup and recalibrate ourselves. Some of us are already working to open that discussion, to decide what we represent together and what the principles and applications are on which we can unite. Please join us. Shake off despair, there is still time to act. It may be a sad morning, but it is still morning in America. Oyster out.

Talk while you can.

In about 80 days, Free Speech is no longer a protected commodity when it comes to political speech.

Listen to Rush and Boortz while you can.

Outstanding post Proteus! You are wise beyond your years! I concur with your sentiments 100% and hope as you do, that he WILL do what is best for this great country of ours, though I seriously doubt his puppeteers have that in store for us all.

Bill,
Another great example of the difference between folks of the Right vs. Left. Your comments are similar to what I have read on many other Right side blogs. Had the election gone the other way, we would have had all the vitriol of BDS on steroids.

My one disappointment is that Obama has been elected as an affirmative action candidate. That is not to mean he is not qualified, or couldn't get elected fairly. It just means that there were so many rules bent and so many things overlook with his candidacy that we will never know if he would have been elected on a level playing field. And as with all who benefit from affirmative action, the individual who is advanced will always carry the stigma of "could he make it on his own?"

Cheers Bill - comparing your comments to those of the "leading" left-wing bloggers four years ago truly makes clear the distinction between our level of class and theirs. Props to you.

Meanwhile, welcome to the Union of Socialist American States and let's hang on - maybe kick the GOP to the curb for a New Constitution Party - and gear up to win again (a la 1994) in 2010.

Bill, I wish I could be as magnanimous. I am bitter, disappointed and just plain damn mad. To think that the sheeple also reelected Murtha and that Franken is even in contention makes me VERY AFRAID for our future.

I am sick and tired of being a "nice guy" and just "taking it on the chin". I want to be good and gracious but, my heart just isn't in it. May never be. I only hope and pray that the one (I will never call him president) does not screw things up as much as I fear he will.

I'm scared. Seriously. Wonder if I can hide under the bed for the next 4 years. Can I put my head in your armpit?

Bill, you are a gentleman. I can't say that I'd be as gracious a cat.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. I know I am. I keep telling myself STAND AND FIGHT! But I want to hide under the ed.

Tyger

Folks, it seems to me that it's about time that the erstwhile leaders of The Stupid Party are turned out by the rank-and-file.If there is any chance at returning America to the great nation is was and can again be, we need robust, principled leadership of a genuinely conservative party that isn't afraid to enunciate and live by the principles of individualism and federalism.

To the victorious ...

You may find that having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting. This is not logical, but it is often true ... Spock of Vulcan.

As for me, my emotions are a mix of mourning and trepidation.

The United States is now starting a slide towards the least-common-denominator of international standing ... to the status of "just another nation".

The problem is, I don't see anyone else with the strength ... and the integrity ... that can be trusted to take our place as the primary defender of rights-respecting governance ... the proven prerequisite to sustainable peace.

We live in a world that has shown it is totally blind to the value of rights-respecting governance, to the point that it will neither promote nor defend it on its merits ... its defense reduced to a by-product of a fight for survival, only after the people who live under it die by the thousands when it is attacked.

If this slide goes too far, it will be irreversible, even if conservatives recapture the levers of American power in the near future ... and the world will suffer for it.

They will once again wish for the American "cowboy diplomacy", that has freed millions of people who now appreciate it, and will now share our trepidation, as the barbarians once again encroach upon their -- and our -- gates.

But will there again be a cowboy in the saddle, ready to defend life and liberty?

How many will have to die, before those in Western Civilization "saddle up" for that defense?

And have we traded so-called "wars of choice" now, for a future conflict where, backed against the wall, our only choices will be either surrender to totalitarian domination ... or an indiscriminate, scorched-earth application of technology-amplified military force that will kill far more innocents -- on all sides -- than all those "wars of choice" combined?

May God help us ... and give us all, from the new President on down, wisdom.

Excuse me, but: a reality check is in order here.
Conservatives got trounced today. There is no longer a 'silent majority' of conservatives in America, and in fact that 'majority' was last seen in 1972 when Nixon won.
Remember: Ron Reagan beat Jimmy Carter in '80, but not by much. And this was with Carter carrying the burdens of Iranian hostages, 12.5% stagflation, gas lines, and 8% unemployment. Sure, Americans still reward success, but after the Reagan/Bush 1 era, Clinton was elected TWICE, and his annointed successor tied in 2000 - a squeaky narrow loss that inflamed an already left-plurality electorate.
We've been moving left since the 60's. It's come about thru the 'leftization' of both the Media and Education, and both organizations were self reinforcing internally. And you can see the results! A clear majority of Americans now actively want the nanny state, and have elected a Marxist based on attaching their individual dreams to a suave, debonair, silk tongued con man. The Messiah will seek to alter the very fabric of a nation he sees as inherently racist and economically unjust, even thwarting the constitution to do so - and he has public cart blanche to do it. The Majority of Americans no longer value the virtues of a John Wayne or Teddy Roosevelt - they want 'the government' to pay for their education, pay for their health care, help them with their gas and rent/mortgage, to be the Big Daddy, the Nanny.
I now await forlornly for the Fairness Doctrine to suppress my right to free speech and dissent; for 'political correctness' to energetically erase all memory and records in old, stored media (books, records, movies) or our Pioneering, can-do past; of The New Thought attacking the very soul of country folks who work and live in still-Frontier treasures like Wyoming, Montana, Nevada and Alaska; and for America's Youth to be formally enrolled upon high school graduation in the new Internal Defense Corps, with a $500B budget and a full agenda of Ideological Training ready.

I never thought I'd live to see the end of America and the crushing of the ideals of the Enlightenment upon which is was founded.

The problem with that is the difficulty being heard because the most effective way to educate the public is the media. Even without the Fairness Doctrine, the inborn bias of all people combined with the general liberal leanings of media and higher education create an environment hostile to getting our message out "calmly, with wit and humility." We can pray word of mouth works?

Regardless of whether one agrees with Obama or not (I sure as hell don't), this was an historical election. The first (half) black man was elected to the presidency, and for that we should be proud. Other than that, the fight for the soul of this country is now full on. All of us who believe in free enterprise, freedom of speech, self-reliance, and individualism MUST stick together.
Finally, I'm proud of the way we (those of rational mind, anyway), have graciously accepted defeat. We're better than they are.

Bill Whittle is correct. He shows the way by being magnanimous in defeat. It is the role now of conservatives to be a loyal opposition. We need to stay away from the conservative counterpart of BDS. No! Not that way, please! We argue from principle, not rancor. We must honor the decision by the American people be it ever so bitter. We will have much to say about the Obama administration, but let us do so rationally. We will address the issues. Our conservative principles remain valid even if the people see it not. The republic will stand. God Save the Republic!

~Paules, what you said.

Well said, Mr. Whittle, well said inded.

I only emphasize that after the heartfelt and magnanimous congratulations have been sent, I merely have this to say:

I will never submit.

All my best.

StudSupreme,

I support your comment wholeheartly and it was inevitable that this day would arrive.

I rose from my bed this morning, deeply saddened at the direction the people of this nation have chosen. A nation once respected and admired around the world as a place where personal responsibility, the will to succeed and love of country were the core values. The United States of America and what she once stood for have potentially been dealt a fatal blow.

We now stand at the edge of the abyss, having chosen as our leader a man who champions the entitlement philosophies of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. He is a man who freely espouses his belief in socialist policy, the criminalization of success. We as a people have failed our country by electing this man.

His policies of re-distribution of wealth, his associations with radicals and racists, his naive and dangerous beliefs that our nation owes the world a solution, all of these things have been known for over two years, and yet we STILL chose him to lead us. The hundreds of thousands of American men who spilled their blood in places like Omaha Beach, Bastogne, Anzio and Iwo Jima have just been slapped in the face. Their sacrifices were for naught, as we embrace the very ideologies we once fought against. The America I was raised to love has quietly stepped to the edge and looks into the abyss. Not with trepidation or fear as it should be, but with blind adoration of a false Messiah exhorting her to take one last step. God help us all.

Its understandable that many McCain supporters are disappointed at the outcome, because life is short and some view this as 8 years just having been taken away from them. For me however and a lot of AMericans and people all over the world, this is the first time in many years that we feel that incompetence is no longer going to rewarded and real progress will be made. Its a huge sigh of relief. Inspite of the landslide majority, Obama did not claim the political capital that Bush did when he barely creep past 270, so I urge those of you who can to join in and make things happen. To those who can't, good luck anyways.

I couldn't sleep tonite.
Some more thoughts on my original post:

Excuse me, but: a reality check is in order here.
Conservatives got trounced today. There is no longer a 'silent majority' of conservatives in America, and in fact that 'majority' was last seen in 1972 when Nixon won against McGovern.
Remember: Ron Reagan beat Jimmy Carter in '80, but not by much. And this was with Carter carrying the burdens of Iranian hostages, 12.5% stagflation, gas lines, and 8% unemployment. Sure, Americans still reward success, but after the Reagan/Bush 1 era, Clinton was elected TWICE, and his annointed successor tied in 2000 - a squeaky narrow loss that inflamed leftists to a self-righteous fanatical frenzy.
We've been moving left since the 60's. It's come about thru the 'leftization' of both the Media and Higher Education - both natural places of congregation for leftists in most any society, and both organizations were self reinforcing internally these last 40 years. And you can see the results! A clear majority of Americans have been trained for almost two generations now with a leftist agenda, discarding the previous civics lessons in self-reliance, individual achievement and merit, and now actively support the concept of the nanny state, having elected a Marxist by deliberately ignoring his political background and attaching their individual dreams to a suave, debonair, silk tongued con man. The Messiah will seek to alter the very fabric of a nation he sees as inherently racist and economically unjust (despite the fact he's a millionaire who just got elected President), even thwarting the constitution to do so - and he has public carte blanche to do it. The Majority of Americans no longer value the virtues of a John Wayne movie character or the real life Teddy Roosevelt, with their stark self reliance, individualism, and reward based on individual effort and merit - they want 'the government' to pay for their education, pay for their health care, help them with their gas and rent/mortgage, to be the Big Daddy, the Nanny; to redistribute the wealth created by the sacrifice and talent of others because it's not 'fair' that some have more than others. No matter that 'the government' gets money from the people thru higher levels & greater inequality of taxation, that 'FREE' health care becomes of poor quality and lengthy access, and that you pay for it every fucking day whether you use it or not. SHit's sake - doesn't anyone remember the 40+ year history of Medicare and Medicaid? Medicare was founded as insurance for the elderly, Medicaid as insurance for low income families. YOU PAY FOR THIS SHIT FROM EVERY GODDAM PAYCHECK - LOOK AT YOUR PAYSTUB TO SEE THE DEDUCTION. Do you know how many TRILLIONS have been spent on those programs over the last 40 years? Do you know how they have been utter and complete FAILURES because of the incredibly poor coverage they provide to their clients? ANd now, the Messiah is going to BUILD on this record of SPECTACULAR FAILURE and, with the federal government already over $10T in debt, he's going to increase benefits and extend it across the entire NATION??? The Messiah is going to be successful where Russia, Germany, Britain, Canada, Italy and France have all FAILED? He's going to be successful when the federal government already struggles to simply take proper care of it's 30,000 Veteran soldiers wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT??????
I now await forlornly for the Fairness Doctrine to suppress my right to free speech and dissent, since the Left believes dissent is only palatable if it comes from Them, and anyone who has an alternate view from their 'dissent doctrine' immediately gets shouted down with a flurry of foul language, crude insults and physical threats; for 'political correctness' to energetically erase all memory and records in old, stored media (books, records, movies) of our pioneering, free spirited, energetic, can-do past, replacing the success of America in defeating the Nazis and the Communists, rebuilding war - ravaged nations and continents, even those of their previously mortal enemies, creating an explosion of creativity and innovation in Science and the Arts which built the modern world we live in, and giving legions of immigrants fleeing from hopelessness, oppression, grinding poverty, corruption and class/caste-locked societies the chance to build something of their own and pass on a real hope for the future to their children with the New Truth - doctrines of how evil, unjust, unfair and unkind America is, and how it owes the world endless apologies & prostrations, and a surrender of all the wealth that it 'stole' from them; of The New Correct Thought attacking the very soul of folks who work and live in still-Frontier treasures like Wyoming, Montana, Nevada and Alaska; and for America's Youth to be formally enrolled upon high school graduation in the new Internal Defense Corps, with a $500B budget and a full agenda of Ideological Training ready to make them the new Red Guard, eager to instigate the American Cultural Revolution. And he'll be untouchable as he incrementally makes these changes his marxist views tell him he needs to make to American society - the Mainstream Media and Hollywood got him into office and protected him from any major public revelations of his background (a background so far to the left, so sprinkled with radicals and people with literal terrorist affiliations, that he would not be able to pass a background check to get even first level security clearance), and the MSM will drop all the right phrases and right all the well crafted op ed pieces that will make all these changes seem like harmless things with no real implications to the way we live and work. It's incredible - he's got a propaganda arm ten times bigger and more distributed than Pravda, and it's for free....................

Nor can those who elected this Manchurian Candidate offer any excuse. The evidence was there to see for all who cared to look and didn't just get things spoonfed to them by the NYT and MSNBC. The Messiah even publicly said it himself, on numerous occasions, even just a few weeks ago, describing his plans, his vision, his views. His future is one where 'A Righteous Wind' will transform an evil, selfish, cruel and heartless society - a society which rebuilds its conquered enemies after squandering its own blood and treasure and sets them free to live as they choose, free from coercion, dictatorship and tyranny - into a society where 'each gives freely according to his ability and each takes according to his need.' Do any of you know where the two quoted phrases originated from?............a hint: two men, each of whose last names begin with 'M.'

This is what awaits America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

That's no soundbite. That's a lengthy treatise, a well thought out discussion that dovetails quite well with everything The Messiah has been saying in the debates and in his stump speeches - even in tonite's acceptance speech. And it's not the only 'scrap' of evidence, nor can you contempuously dismiss it as propaganda - he said it, he says it now, and he isn't budging from it. All these centrist posturings have been very effective for the campaign, but a leopard simply cannot change its spots - especially if it doesn't want to.......

I never thought I'd actually live to see the end of America and the crushing of the ideals of the Enlightenment upon which is was founded - the ideals which stated that Man has great nobility in him, that the individual was to be respected, and had a set of basic, inalienable rights, rights that could not be GRANTED or CONTROLLED or TAKEN by a government, but which came to Man directly from Nature or God - the right to LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. And that the rewards of his toil, his genius, his talent, his effort were HIS and HIS ALONE, that the effects of his productivity and creation, his pursuit of his own Enlightened Self Interest, would benefit ALL, not thru Confiscation, but open exchange and trade between his fellow man who is also freely pursuing his own self interest. It was these simple principles, these fundamental ideals which took a bunch of backwoodsmen in a vast wilderness across a mere 200 years to splitting the atom and walking on the surface of another planet. It was these very principles that brought my dad's parents here, to flee dirt-poor villages in southern Italy where there was no education, no opportunity, no future, no hope, and justice only at the end of a mafioso's shotgun, to a place where they could start anew, with no preordained order of things, no societal constraints, and where there son - my dad - could grow up to be a Doctor.

All this, thrown away, to a man whose policies his acolytes and fans don't even know and don't WANT to know - he's changed his stance so many times on so many issues, but done it with such finesse, such silky smoothness, with that rich baritone voice, clear diction and steady speaking style and well tailored expensive suits, and he's so YOUNG and GOOD LOOKING and he speaks so WELL and acts so PRESIDENTIAL, such CHARISMA, you can just FEEL the CHANGE!!!!!, whatever it is, I don't care, WHOOOOO-HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

CCCCCCHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNGGGGGEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSSS WWWWEEEEEEEEEE CCCCCAAAAANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sweet Jesus...................................

May Obama and his demented crew go to hell along with all the people who voted for him. Ditto for the abominable Republicans who put up such a spineless defense that a high school drop out team could have vanquished them.

I will NOT be magnanimous to those who mean me ill as they clearly do. I am a producer as was Joe the Plumber. I am one of their targets to be consumed for the momentary pleasure of all the good for nothing parasites of this world - themselves included.

I will NOT accept him as MY president. He may hold a questionable claim to the title but he represents nothing that I hold in high regard. In fact, he represents the worst of the worst. His best and most noble motive is the total destruction of all that made this country great BECAUSE it was great.

Let the resistance begin!

The Cold War is now over - and Communism won. May a just God give those who voted for Obama the wisdom to understand the beauty of the great gift they were born with and threw away; and may a merciful God give them the strength to bear the grief resulting from that understanding.

For the record: 1980 Presidential election results:
Reagan: 43,903,230 popular votes, 489 electoral votes
Carter: 35,480,115 popular votes, 49 electoral votes
Just barely, my posterior.

The most disappointing aspect of this to me is that I can no longer tell my son that one element of success in life is picking and choosing your friends wisely. In our president-elect, we have a man who consorted with terrorists, received spiritual guidance from an anti-American hatemonger, and bought his house with the assistance of a felon.

His abandonment of his church based on nothing more than political expediency tells me something about the man's principles, and his bragging about drug usage without any hint of regret or shame is equally disturbing to someone trying to raise an 11-year-old.

Respect and trust must be earned; Obama has done nothing to earn either.

There has been no harsher critic of Obama than I. But I think it is far too early to lament the death of capitalism. I will hold out hope that Obama sees the wisdom in governing towards the center. He certainly will have his hands full in the Senate should he choose to do so. I also can't wait to see the look on the faces of my friends who supported Obama when their taxes go up. I do, however, accept him as my President and wish him, and the American people, well.

I thought Sen. McCain's concession speech truly a class act. While I am relieved Obama won, I am very impressed by your gracious post and those of other conservatives.

Your words urge me to behave as graciously toward my political opponents and to listen with an open mind. I hope this is the start of both parties working together for the good of our country.
Thank you for your voice.
-Dutch Walter

Dutch Walter,

Work together? Your party's idea of working together is do it their way or the highway. Well, as far as I am concerned, you and yours can take that highway to hell!

The good of this country MEANS resistance to your abominable ideas. The resistance has begun.

I wonder when the President-elect will get his first security briefing? How will he feel when he hears of all the different ways our enemies are trying to kill us and will he change his viewpoint? It will be interesting to see what his face looks like after his four years in office (President Bush looked ten years older). Meanwhile, I'm still passing through the stages of grief.

And while I appreciate Bill's words, I'm feeling more like the John Glen character in The Right Stuff -- I'm sick and tired of being "forthright, magnanimous, and gracious."

My friends...

Just in case you have any questions at all about where my heart and mind lie:

Being gracious in defeat is not surrender and it is not even a political strategy. It is a way to clear the deck emotionally, to put one fight behind you -- the losing fight -- so that you may concentrate on winning. Being gracious is defeat allows you to examine your errors coldly and accurately, it frees you from the need for excuses, which cripples your ability to appraise your faults, and it places you in a position of calmness and balance which is the best platform from which to launch your counterstroke.

If you think this means we are finished, that capitalism is dead, that liberty has three months to live -- think again.

There have been some magnificent words uttered in th history of this Republic. Each time and place calls out different passages. The one I would have you focus on now is simply this, from John Paul Jones:

Surrender? I have not yet begun to fight.

Mark those words.

I avoided the media until this morning and was absolutely shocked at how bad things got overnight. Not just the presidential race ... that was certainly bad enough ... but all the local races ... almost everything swept so far left that this is unrecognizable as America (certainly isn't the Michigan I moved to 10 years ago).
The misleading ads were so blatant, I was astonished they were airing, and yet this morning I awoke to a state embracing legalized drugs, taxpayer funded cloning, the top supreme court judge being replaced by a judge too incompetant for her last position, and on and on. It's as if the machines were all programmed to accept only votes for nominees with a "D" after their name. Color me absolutely, positively astonished. What exactly was in that Hope and Change they fed into the public water system.
I guess the saving grace for me is that I can (and probably should before he confiscates private pensions) retire with full pension and benifits ... at least that would take my tax "contributions" out of his reach ...
This is not a happy day. But I am looking forward to seeing how his supporters deal with their dashed plans when reality bites.

~Paules, I wish I had you faith (and Bill's) but seeing the examples of Hugo and other idols of BHO gives me faith only that we will be visited by WORSE and his cronies.

Should we start a lottery on which city will be thye first to feel the terrorists heel? I'll place my bet that NYC will become uninhabitable shortly after 1/20/09.

"To those Americans whose support I have yet to earn -- I may not have won your vote, but I hear your voices, I need your help, and I will be your president, too," he said.

I'd ask that those of you bemoaning the death of our nation in the comments to remember that. He didn't say screw you guys, I'm going home. he said I want and need your help/criticism. I'd like to see you give it and provide ideas instead of calling him funny names, capitalizing his middle name, or other childish things.

Call me what you want to, but the last 8 years of both democrats/republicans have only worked against each other instead of with each other. I'd like to see that die a glorious death, both the speaker of the house and the majority leader of the senate replaced, and I'd like a billion dollars for Christmas while I'm at it.

I am a registered independent. I lean to the left on social issues, and to the right on fiscal issues. however I fear the right when it come to the marriage of conservative and religious fervor. Anyone who thinks they should legislate faith is a bad candidate in my book, and I will run away from them every time.

Communism has only won the battle, not the war. However, being gracious in defeat only means that we don't scream like petulant children about it. Instead, we pick ourselves up, dust off our pants, and start working to put things back on track (as much as possible).

One of the methods, I believe, is as Doug Loss said above: Turn out the current Republican leadership and put in leaders who better represent the base, and aren't trying to pander to the Washington elites.

Another is to communicate your opinions (politely) to Congress on whatever issues you feel strongly about, whether you think it will help or not. At least they will know when their constituents are unhappy with them, and if enough people do so, they may just change their minds.

Al Franken? Seriously? My God!

You you hear me now?

Do you hear me now?

"To those Americans whose support I have yet to earn -- I may not have won your vote, but I hear your voices, I need your help, and I will be your president, too," he said.

I'd ask that those of you bemoaning the death of our nation in the comments to remember that. He didn't say screw you guys, I'm going home. he said I want and need your help/criticism. I'd like to see you give it and provide ideas instead of calling him funny names, capitalizing his middle name, or other childish things.

Bush said exactly the same thing in 2004. The response from the lefties was to savage the man, and all who voted for him. The talk was not of hope, loyal opposition, or magnanimity, it was impeachment, moving to Canada, and complaining that the left wasn't mean and nasty enough.

I share Bill's thoughts exactly. But you'll pardon me if I'm... unimpressed with the lefties now condescendingly talking about bipartisanship and healing.

Bill,

Your magnanimous words gives the abominable bastards a sanction and recognition they don't deserve. It makes them and others believe that the result is only a difference of irrelevant opinion. It isn't. Its the difference between life or death. They have not earned a single thing except contempt.

William?

Anyone care to rip up my posts like a "velociraptor"?

I was trying to help you people. As all liberals have been. The fight is not against conservatives. That's your mentality. Our fight is for reality itself. How could you ever have won?

Will you make the deal now? 1. fox (hannity, beck, o'reilly), rush,coulter,boortz, hewiit, malkin, lowery, savage, and on and on, off the air.

2. Jail the criminals in the administration of the last 8 years.

Not to much to ask. these people represent you and your party. Do that and your right back in business. Do not do that and you will share their fate. Long term irrelevance, if your party survives.

Just trying to help. we need two parties, at least

Bill is right- emotion is for losers. Take a clear eyed look at the future, starting in January.
Lionell Griffith's post hit the two keywords:
1. Producer
2. Resistance
Think about it.

I join Our Beloved Host in his congratulations to Barack Obama. He was not my choice to be our next president, but he is our next president nonetheless, and I wish him well. My hopes for him are the same as Our Host's: that he use his opportunity well and wisely, and respond to the challenges he will surely face in a way that serves the best interests of the United States of America.

Because I am, first and foremost, an American. A Republican, yes, but only by (often bitter) pragmatic calculation. An American both by accident of birth AND by conscious adult choice. A firm believer in America, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, and when wrong, to be put right.

This election did not in any way go as I'd hoped it would. Yet its outcome provides us an important opportunity we would not have had, if McCain had won instead. We have the chance to seriously reform the Republican Party, doing away with the errors which led it to yesterday's outcome.

John McCain was and is a great man. But he was the wrong man to be the Republican standard bearer, and his errors in this campaign are a mirror of many of the ways in which the Republicans of the last 8 years have betrayed their own supporters. With luck and hard work, we can use yesterday's defeat to correct the course of the party and put it back on course to leadership, and leadership under sounder principles than have prevailed recently.

We (as Republicans) can use this to turn around our own fortunes in a way that electoral victory could not have done. We did it in 1994, and we did it in 1980. We can do it again.

And we (as Americans) owe it to our country -- which any man worthy of his citizenship loves above all matters of partisanship -- to wish and to seek only the best for America. We can and should oppose many of the policies Barack Obama will favor, but we must never, under any circumstances, succumb to bitterness, which leads only to nihilistic despair and defeat, not only for our preferred party, but for our nation as well.

I am deeply disappointed with the results of the election. Not so much that I was in support of McCain (the lesser of the 2 evils, I held my nose when voting for him), but I am so vehemently against the politics and (deliberately obfuscated) policies of Obama and the rest of the radical left. I am equally appalled at the naivety of the American electorate. In both cases I am disappointed but not surprised. I am livid at the limp effort of the conservative campaign, as well as the blatant willful bias of the MSM. That the new leftist regime is not prepared to effectively govern in a way that is consistent with the preservation of freedom and prosperity, and has no intention of doing so, I believe to be self evident. That the new leftist regime will do long lasting damage to the nation is also self evident. That the new leftist regime will make our current troubles that much worse for that much longer I likewise hold to be self evident.

That said, my intention is to be of the loyal opposition, at least at first. I intend to give the leftist government the opportunity to show that it can do what is right for the nation and the people. That said, I reserve the right to keep my options open. By being loyal, it is important to keep in mind just what I am being loyal to. I am being loyal to an ideal. I am NOT guaranteeing loyalty to any governmental entity. I do NOT believe that democratic outcomes hold me to any degree of loyalty whatsoever. That tyrannical, despotic regimes have been selected democratically has ample historical precedence. My loyalty is to the concepts of freedom and liberty. Should the new leftist regime act to placate the far left base and trash those freedoms and liberty we hold dear, should they bring about a new jackbooted brownshirt corps (as has been openly promised) dedicated to enforcing their leftist-socialist tyranny, I will NOT submit – I am armed, I will NOT surrender those arms, and I will NOT go down quietly. Should the JBTs start kicking down my door, they better be wearing body armor. My intention at first is to resist the leftists peacefully by way of the established political order. But, if the situation deteriorates, I am open to a secessionist movement or internal war if it comes down to it. For, after all, there is nowhere in this world left for the liberty loving person to go – we have to do it here or it won't get done.

For now – I am torn between sackcloth and ashes and girding of my loins. Both is more like it. I mourn for our people and our once proud nation. I mourn for the hardships to come. And yet I prepare for whatever is necessary to restore sanity to our land or at least some portion of it. I pray that we are able to do so peacefully, and yet I fear that it will not be so. If so, so be it.

Call me what you want to, but the last 8 years of both democrats/republicans have only worked against each other instead of with each other. I'd like to see that die a glorious death

Tom, as a conservative I'd like to see that too. Unfortunately, the only time "bipartisanship" and "shared power" are the buzzwords are when the Republicans are in power. When the Democrats sweep in, all talk of "sharing" power in government will be silenced, as it has been before.

I strongly suspect that Democrats can't get along with Republicans, even though Republicans can get along with Democrats, for exactly the same reason why Palestinians can't get along with Israelis, even though Israelis can get along with Palestinians. One group wishes to see the other's complete and total destruction, and will continue to foment and cause ruckuses until such time as it gets exactly what it wants.

"That the new leftist regime will do long lasting damage to the nation is also self evident. That the new leftist regime will make our current troubles that much worse for that much longer I likewise hold to be self evident.

That said, my intention is to be of the loyal opposition, at least at first.
"

spoken like a true benidict arnold, as your party has come to represent. SAbotage for power and profit. Pathetic. Liberals didn't sabotage bush or the gop. They let the gop trip themselves up. you've had full power for 40 years (clinton was a republican) and look where are country is. You people have had everything your baby way for decades. What are you so mad about?

Justice. Cause and effect. If the gop did it's job they would not be in the position they are in. It's not the media's fault (unless you count fox and rush)/ It's not obama's fault or liberals. It's the leaders you have been fighting for all these years. The hammer, bush, palin, ginrich and those like them. those people are the cause of the gop's downfall. If you want someone to blame gop, look int he mirror. Don't hate and blame the world. BE a big boy/girl and take responsibility for you actions for once, children. I know you don't do accountability. Try. the future of your party depends on it, sir.

Today is a day for graciousness.

I would hope that the elation and joy that Senator Obama’s supporters feel would lead to a greater graciousness in victory than they have at times shown in defeat in the last elections. It’s time for them to put down the venom and pick up the valor.

It is indeed a day ripe with hope for new beginnings. And, for those who supported Senator McCain, or perhaps simply opposed Senator Obama, it is time to show America and the world what grace looks like when your candidate does not prevail. This is not a day for rancor or bitterness, for ugly sentiments or veiled threats of “payback”. For those of us in the middle, it is a day to wait and hope, that those on each side of us learn what it means to have grace, in both victory and defeat.

Is there some “message” about what “everybody” thought in this voting process? No, I don’t believe there is. Senator Obama received barely above 50% of the votes cast by our citizens. Senator McCain received over 46%. In reality, half the country is pulling on one end of the rope and half on the other. If we read too much into this slight edged victory, we risk overstating a position that simply does not exist. But let’s not read too little into it either.

It signals a sea change possibility in how we deal with each other. I don’t believe today is the day to do much more than take a breath and exhale. To act with dignity, integrity, honor and grace. And to be thankful for a country where your vote counts for something. (there will be time in a few days to discuss voting irregularities by both sides and other weighty issues, but not today)

I don’t believe we “got our country back”, because I never believed it went anywhere. And I think that’s the wrong message for today, it smacks of smack. Today is not a day for smack talk.

I don’t believe that Senator McCain’s missteps in his campaign had the most impact on the outcome as a couple of other items, that were out of his control. President Bush was wildly unpopular. This country was weary of wearing the black eye given in no small part by partisan politics, and constantly remained sore as they poked their thumbs in it without relenting.

This country was tired of not being liked and feeling disrespected. That drumbeat may have won an election, but it lost this country the respect and honor that it did not deserve to lose. President Bush has a mountain of flaws, too many to list and too deep for this venue….. but fair is fair, right is right and wrong is wrong…no matter who is delivering the message and no matter the reason behind it. The overreaching and unfair attibutions spilled over onto this country, and I hope they end today for the good of this land of ours.

That same group of folks made every concerted effort to give Senator Obama every advantage that they could. That was a great political strategy. What remains to be seen, is whether there are remnants of those strategies that live on past today, in ways unexpected, unintended, but not unpredictable.

For those of us in the middle, we call them as we see them. Hyperpartisanship is not a good thing. If we are to be lead by someone who calls for unity, then it can’t be one hand clapping. Both sides have to come together, because those of us in the middle are weary of the rancor.

Senator Obama had a mountain of cash (again today is not the day to discuss campaign financing issues) and was able to outspend Senator McCain by a larger margin than in any other election. Some of this stemmed from brilliant strategy and a wealth of excitement, which is so wonderful, it cannot be dismissed without a smile. Again, whether other elements of it have lasting unintended impacts should be set aside for another day.

There was a “No, we’re really not” element to the undercurrent accusation that this country is racist at its core, I believe. I think this outcome is such a good thing in so many ways, that it cannot be discounted. This historic moment has its place in America that is long overdue. Whether the accusation was fair or used improperly by both sides, is not a discussion for today, but today is a day to begin painting our image with a different set of brushes.

Today is a day to pause and celebrate one brilliant shining diamond in the rough and tumble of this election. ANYONE can be elected President of this country, regardless of race, creed, gender, and with minor limitations, age. That says something wonderful about us as a people and for that, we should be swelled with pride.

John McCain didn’t overcome the overwhelming odds that were stacked against him. The imperfections in his campaign, perhaps, if remedied, could have made it a closer race with those in the middle, but not by much, I don’t believe. This was the time, this was the place, this was the moment in history that destiny had chosen.

In the final analysis, perhaps we are still a very divided country. It is up to those who have won, to extend an olive branch to all of the rest of America. And it is up to those who feel the sting of defeat, to wipe the slate clean and lead by example.

If you have complained bitterly about the behavior of the opposition when they lashed out repeatedly and unfairly at your side, when they have ridiculed and lampooned you, when they called you stupid and racist and worse….showing them how it’s done graciously is your most powerful weapon.

Senator Obama is my President. I will defend him and his honor with every fiber in my being. I hope and pray he unites us.

Senator McCain did not lose this election. It was not his to win.

History has been made and it is time for people on either side of those of us in the middle to quit pulling it apart at the seams. Today is a day of great joy and elation. It’s up to the grace of the winners and losers on each side to ensure that tomorrow is as well.

Remember, folks, don't feed the trolls. (They don't need feeding; they're coprophages.)

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 11/05/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.

After reading your whole post Posted by: gb_in_tx. Take it easy. Take a breather before you have a heart attack. your going to do nothing. Your going to sit on your hands and take whatever happens, as the left has been forced to do the last 8 years. you will wait 4 years and try again. Anything short of that is treason on your part. Let's not pretend here. To choose an outside entity (money, power, a party, rush limbaugh, fox, your guns) over the good and will of yoru nation is treason. Was is and always will be.

you think liberals have been happy the last 8 years? you think we have been persecuted? You think their have been laws that took our rights and yours that we disagree with? Did we threaten violence?

CRawl back in the basement, or hole, for the next 30 years. Accept the irrelevance you have earned for your parties actions, like a grown up. Your threats fall on deaf ears,

Bill,

I just wanted to thank you for your post. I just checked out the National Review because I wanted to see how conservatives were going to handle this. I am grateful that you espouse a rational understanding of our differences, rather than inflammatory rhetoric. I think you might have just gained a liberal reader.

I hope this election heals some wounds, and that we can put a lot behind us -- the Clinton years, the Bush years. This is a "start over" point in America, and we don't often get them.

I hope the discourse stays civil, and I truly hope Obama appoints a few responsible and capable Republicans to his cabinet. I hope that would be seen as a sign by conservatives that he is making an effort to hear all sides before making decisions, even if I still believe that the next Republican administration would once again alienate Democrats.

I am hopeful, but trying to be realistic.

I hope we can continue to talk out the issues in the next four years instead of dealing with distractions from the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh (who even now is saying "screw unity"). These people do your party no service. Their goal is ratings, not discussion.

I know you believe that once conservative ideas are rationally presented that people will join the fold never to leave. I also believe this about liberalism -- that if people really understood what it meant to be a liberal (instead of the exaggerated, cartoonish "welfare/socialist state" that the radio hatemongers would have people believe it is), they would join the fold never to leave.

Anyway, I thank you again for your graciousness and kind words, and look forward to a civil debate moving forward.

"I would hope that the elation and joy that Senator Obama’s supporters feel would lead to a greater graciousness in victory than they have at times shown in defeat in the last elections. It’s time for them to put down the venom and pick up the valor."

Control your confederate, gun touting, violence threatening/inciting terrorists, yourselves then. Control your traitors lunatic yourselves. Please.

It is a great day in america, today. you people lost. Be grown-ups about it. I have feared your fascist police state daily, the last 8 years. You don't see me threatening violence. We did it the right way. Control your lunatics.

pEACE GOP. let's fix the great damage done together. Shall we? Or not? What are the risks and rewards to NOT doing so? You said country first, right? that's the motto. Try and make it more than a gimmick. Put your country over your idealology having total and compleate control of all. This is america. we are a democracy. Majority rule. if you do not believe it that concept, move to africa, or south america. But please don't whine cry and complain. And definatly don't threaten violence of incite hate. Today is not the day for that. Accept reality. you have hid the last 8 years. Accept reality in america circa 2008, and let's move forward and build the coutnry without yor sabotage for profit.

And remember, when things happen you don't want or dissaprrove of. remember the last 8 years and how you mocked and attacked liberals. Remember how all powerful you were and how irrelevant liberals have been. I'm not saying you will be equallity irrelevant, but if you were you couldn;'t complain. Bush was the president of some america. Obama can be the president of all america. If you'll let him

As both an Obama supporter and a long-time reader of yours, Bill, your grace is much appreciated, and I hope we can all conduct ourselves with that same class and respect for one another.

My son called last night, kind of depressed. He was informed yesterday that his unit (USMC) will be deploying to the sandbox again in Jan. 2009 AND 'That One' aka Messiah was elected.
His enlistment termination date is in Jul. 2009 but his enlistment was extended for nine months. I wonder what affect this will have on the morale of the military knowing that past and future sacrifices in Iraq may be for naught.
I also am very afraid and hope that the realities of executing 'Change' is much more difficult than promoting it.
As others have pointed out though, he will be our President, therefore will garner my respect as the holder of the Office, but not as an individual or a follower of his ideals. Here's hoping that the pendulum starts swinging the other way now.

I have read enough of the essays and commentary, both current and archived, to appreciate the depths of despair and disgust many of you EEE tribesmen are feeling right now. You wear your patriotism on your sleeves, and your ideals are firm as the Pentelic marble that constructed the preserved glories of that most ancient of republics caressed by the Aegean. I don't agree with a portion of your politics, but I respect your unswavering belief that yours in the true and necessary path America must take to preserve her paramountcy. I also am sorry that a truly great man like John McCain had the temporal misfortune to be buffeted by these particular winds of change.

With all of this said - to then have to be subjected to the sloppily spelled and hectoring harangues of rufusbunchof#s seems the unkindest cut of all.

Great post, Mr. Whittle. I look forward to reading insightful critiques from you and your confreres as the Obama presidency coheres and moves forward. Obviously, his administration will face severe challenges from day one - let us hope he will prove capable and wise in how he responds to these ordeals.

As James Madison wrote:

"But I go on this great republican principle, that the people will have virtue and intelligence to select men of virtue and wisdom. Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks--no form of government can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men. So that we do not depend on their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them."

"You wear your patriotism on your sleeves, and your ideals are firm as the Pentelic marble that constructed the preserved glories of that most ancient of republics caressed by the Aegean. I don't agree with a portion of your politics, but I respect your unswavering belief that yours in the true and necessary path America must take to preserve her paramountcy. I also am sorry that a truly great man like John McCain had the temporal misfortune to be buffeted by these particular winds of change.

With all of this said - to then have to be subjected to the sloppily spelled and hectoring harangues of rufusbunchof#s seems the unkindest cut of all.

Great post, Mr. Whittle. I look forward to reading insightful critiques from you and your confreres as the Obama presidency coheres and moves forward. Obviously, his administration will face severe challenges from day one - let us hope he will prove capable and wise in how he responds to these ordeals.

"

Two things good sir.

1. The gop loves to say we are a republic. It that was so california would be free to pass the legislation they choose, whether that be gay rights or weed legalization or what have you. Gay marraige banned due to vote, fine. But if they would have won? what then? would you have allowed it.

In the ancient republics what were teh harshest penalties/crimes? Corruption, bribery and treason. The gop and their cult cover up these crimes. They laugh and scoff at the most serious of crimes. In order for a republic to funtion it must root out both corruption and treason (to choose and outside influence or money over your nation). People are greedy. Greedy people in public position smust be rooted out. Who has the gopp held to account in their party. Who? you hold the dem's to account, as they do you. When do you hold you own to account as us libs do? that is one reason your party is in bad shape.

2. At what point does pointing out flaws and critisim become charater assianation and sabotage? Bush has earned his hate. Obama? Bush has commited crimes and his actions have resulted in numorous deaths. Obama? He may or may not. Wait, then critize. Don't hate the man for your perceived prejudgces, whther they be racial or idealogical.

Divide and conquer. Sabotage for profit, has been done by the gop. Its is what destoeryed you. Continue down that path, by all means. Just know tehir is consequence to that choice. Probably long term irrelevance.

So hold feet to the fire. But fight for yoru country, whom obama is now the leader of. If you fight for the gop or conservatism you are no differant than the confederate traitors.

Great post, Bill. It's refreshing to see a voice of reason amidst all the doomsayers. It's critical that we remember that all Americans want their President and their nation to succeed, even if they voted on the other side. And though the task of reforming the Republican Party will be great, I believe its grand ideals can and will resurface in America. Long live the United States!

Rufus, I have read a great many of your posts.

You have the instincts of a fascist.

You have the rhetoric of a bomb-thrower.

And worst of all, over the scores of posts you have made, I have heard not one scintilla of intelligence or interest.

So I'm going to something I have done probably two or three times in the history of this blog.

I am going to go into the control panel of this blog and ban you PERSONALLY.

You earned it.

Thanks Bill.

What the hell is Tom Boucher smokin'? Nowhere in the quote from Hopey McChange was there a mention of criticism or faith. But he uses that straw weapon to attempt to strike conservatives.

Tommy, y'ole independent you, I'm afraid that you're going to be very upset by 2012. Hold on to one of your 2008 paystubs and compare it to one from August, 2012.

Rufus133? Send back all data you have on your planet, because it sure as hell ain't Earth. But (if you are employed in 2012) check your paystub. I don't tout a weapon, I tote it. See the OED for the difference. Oh, and BTW - the oath is to protect and defend the Constitution, not whomever is living @1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Your paranoia during the last 8 years is not reality-based. If it were, your sorry ass would be in Gitmo. I will give you this - you've raised whining to a high art. No doubt your nanny is weaning you of your fear of the "gop". Good luck with that. Having said that, I'll say this. Even Shakespeare needed a comic relief character - and you're ours...
Aaron, welcome to the 21st century. Liberals like you are part of the hope for the future. But you'll come to the Dark Side eventually....

Cfbleachers, I have a question for you. Was Rome, France, Great Britain, or Spain adored by the rest of the world while they were ascendant? I thought not. So save the sniveling WRT the world's opinion of us.

Many in our country have been fooled again by the liberal siren of change and the promise of a better life through government programs. People forget and sometimes need to be reminded. A few years of double-digit inflation and similar unemployment numbers will be the splash of cold water to wake them up from their slumber. We know it will come. If it comes in time is the only caveat. Have faith.

Some historical perspective:
On the size of the Obama v McCain win majority, 53.0%/47.0%:

1952 55.2%/44.3% Eisenhower v Stevenson

1956 57.4%/42.0% Eisenhower v Stevenson

1964 61.1%/38.5% Johnson v Goldwater

1972 60.7%/37.5% Nixon v McGovern

1980 50.7%/41.0% Reagan v Carter

1984 58.8%/40.6% Reagan v Mondale

1988 53.4%/45.6% Bush 41 v Dukakis

Congrats to Obama. Now that that's over with, I fear the testicle-squeeze-to-the-enemy of Chicago politics on a national scale.

The Iranians will be treated so much better than us.

den Beste has a great post. A must read, as usual:
http://chizumatic.mee.nu/not_the_end_of_the_world

Bill,

Thanks for that.

I know we don't want to feed those - but my temper's a little short today, and I was approaching the point of opening a can of... food.

- MuscleDaddy

That's a nice speech you gave about supporting our President no matter whether it was the person we voted for, fought for and believed in or not. It's hard to stand behind Obama--I don't believe in him, nor do I think he is prepared to run our country. My thoughts are that Obama did not win last night...McCain did not lose...Bush lost. Obama was fighting against Bush the entire time and there was no way he could win against the liberal illuminati after the devasting economic turmoil that has been going on for the last 6 months.

Bill, a friend linked me to this post, and I just want to say (for what it's worth from an Obama supporter) thanks. You follow John McCain's lead with a gracious - and very patriotic - response to the election.

Ave, Proteus.
Te salutamus.
That was noble and honorable.
Once upon a time we were shield-comrades. No longer.
But you remain my honored adversary, my beloved enemy.
So I advise you; Your party needs the youth demographic, and to embrace tolerance and unity. Your party must embrace science and technology and advance to meet the future without fear. Never seek to oppress fellow citizens with your morals, and promote individual liberty over all moral judgements.
Reject the demons of racism and classism, and invite Lincoln's better angels into your hearts and your heads.

But you know all this through your prescience, better than I.
I wish you well in your pathless exile in the wilderness.

Good journey, Proteus.

Ave, Proteus.
Te salutamus.
That was noble and honorable.
Once upon a time we were shield-comrades. No longer.
But you remain my honored adversary, my beloved enemy.
So I advise you; Your party needs the youth demographic, and to embrace tolerance and unity. Your party must embrace science and technology and advance to meet the future without fear. Never seek to oppress fellow citizens with your morals, and promote individual liberty over all moral judgements.
Reject the demons of racism and classism, and invite Lincoln's better angels into your hearts and your heads.

But you know all this through your prescience, better than I.
I wish you well in your pathless exile in the wilderness.

Good journey, Proteus.

Hey, rufus, listen:

I'm as happy as you are that Obama won, and I'm proud, as millions of Americans are, to have been a part of that victory. And we all have our reasons to be angry with the GOP.

But not every Republican is a raving blowhard like Limbaugh or Hannity. Bill Whittle is an intelligent, reasonable guy who happens to have a different idea of what makes America great.

He's the kind of guy we *want* in an opposing party. He's the kind who makes a strong, well-thought-out case, and really makes you look at your own values. And when you do that, you ask yourself why you hold them, and either come up with strong enough reasons to keep them or you let them evolve into new ones. Either way, it's a good thing.

Now, if you want to yell at angry blowhards, there are plenty of them out there, all itching for a fight today. But I don't think that's what Obama would want, and it's not what our country needs right now.

I'm tired of all the bickering. It's time we accepted our political differences and stood up as one country again.

Bill,

Thanks for being our public face today; most of us aren't fit company today (I know I'm not).

Having spent a few more hours chewing it over, I've moved forward in the grieving process. Now I'm simply depressed. While I can hope that the new administration will live up to our best expectations, their party has such a dismal track record -- oh, dear, I've made myself sad again.

MuscleDaddy, looks like somebody rang the dinner bell.

"Your party needs the youth demographic"
Unfortunately, it seems that it takes wisdom to embrace conservatism, and wisdom normally comes with age. It is better to do what is right than compromise to accommodate those who have not attained wisdom. Some of them come around early, and are embraced. Some later, and are embraced. Some never do.

"and to embrace tolerance and unity."
By and large, we already do that. To a much higher degree than those on the left. Over the last few years, it has been the left who has demonstrated intolerance and divisiveness.

"Your party must embrace science and technology and advance to meet the future without fear."
Many of us already do this. Not all do, however. Science and technology are fine and dandy, but they aren't a do-all. This is an admonition to both sides of the aisle. There are technophobes on both sides of the political divide. Witness the frothing at the mouth from the left when nuclear power is mentioned.

"Never seek to oppress fellow citizens with your morals, and promote individual liberty over all moral judgements (sic). "
It all depends on which faction of conservatism you are talking about. Some do that, it is true. The more libertarian among us do not. Based on the mud slinging that the left has done these last few months, there's plenty of criticism to go around. For example, look at how the Left treated Joe the Plumber, or how they dragged the family of Sarah Palin through the mud. Hypocrites.

"Reject the demons of racism and classism"
From what I've seen, the demons of racism and classism run rampant in the circles of the left. Class warfare is a staple of leftist rabble rousing. Racism was at the base of Obama's campaign -- deflecting any and all criticism with cries of "Rascism" when it was nothing of the sort. Want to see racism? Look left.

"and invite Lincoln's better angels into your hearts and your heads"
Let's just say that I'm no fan of Lincoln. While it is true that slavery is an abomination, unity at the point of a bayonet is even worse. When political unity is not attainable, peaceful secession is the proper route - let the aggrieved go in peace to seek their own destiny. I'll never forgive Lincoln for the slaughter.

Rufus, you're not welcome here. Please take your comments elsewhere.

If I thought the opposition Obamanites were honest patriots who just differed in their means towards the same end (preservation of America) I could honestly step in behind them...they've proven in the campaign and by past actions and mentors and associations that they are neither honest, patriotic, or men of good will.

Let me count the ways:
By removing all automated Name/address/card number security checks on their credit card donation sites, allowing donations in the names of "Saddam Hussein" and "Hoopty Doo" so that effectively there were no limits on amount per person contributed, no blocks to contributions from foreign citizens or agencies...at present no one knows how much money Obama's campaign collected legitimately and how much was in absolute defiance of American campaign laws... By refusing to address or document his personal history while at college, his activities and proclivities and extent of drug use, that could possibly contain elements that would enable him to be blackmailed over past pecadillos, and with a press willing to look away... by failure to clearly and unequivocally denounce thuggish behavior by his supporters and clearly illegal use of government assets to harrass people like Joe the Plumber he has created the impression that if you cross him, the full weight of government and law will be brought to bear against you, chicago style.

Having as mentors, enablers, and supporters, the corrupt (Rezko) race-baiting/America hating (Wright) /unrepentant traitors and communists (Ayers and Dohrn) and refusing to disavow them until case-by-case it bacame politically expedient...

These are not patriotic men of good will...these are men (and women) for whom the end (power) justifies the means (lying and fraud), men and women who see the Constitution and the Supreme Court as "deeply flawed" because it didn't address taking from the rich to give to the poor and spreading the wealth around.

I don't look at the color of his skin, except to say that his lack of character reflects badly on his supporters of whatever race they be.

Chicago 11/5/08

This morning I went up to the gas station to get a pack of smokes. There was a young white couple parked at the pump, Minnesota plates and an Obama/Biden sticker on the rear bumper. Also there was another car with Michigan plates. It only took me a second or two to realize that they had come for the celebration in Grant Park last night, and were fueling up for the road trip home. As I went inside to make my purchase a large truck occupied by two youngish black guys pulled in, spotted the bumper sticker, honked and yelled "Obama!!!", beaming with happiness. The young couple smiled back and raised fists over their heads in solidarity. I made my purchase and turned to exit and a smiling young black man held the door for me, and wished me a good day. And I thought to myself: what if this IS enough to change things.

I think it's possible. I thought about it all day. I found a Bill Whittle essay (small one this time) which expressed some of what I am feeling today really, really well. I'm not going to go around with a chip on my shoulder as I have seen my fellow democrats do for the last eight years and mutter things like "not MY president", and "don't blame me". This is an historic opportunity for America to put the race divide behind us once and for all and I am proud that once again America has lived up to it's credo and it's pledge and has elected it's first black president. With this election, we have showed the rest of the world that not only do we talk the talk, we walk the walk. America. The land of the free and the home of the brave.

If, with the election of Barack Obama, the narrative of oppression can finally be put to rest, then it will have been worth the lost opportunity of having a true American hero as the leader of our country. If the message of inclusion and relevance is finally realized by those who have felt that they were disenfranchised, if the perceived victimization loses it's insidious grip on the minds of those unwilling or unable to rise above their circumstances and realize their own piece of the American dream, then it will be worth it. If millions of Americans who have never been proud of this country until now, such as the future first lady, suddenly find their chests swollen with the pride of having a stake in something, an ownership, it will have been worth it. No more excuses now. Fish or cut bait.

God Bless and Keep America.

Well, that was certainly a pair of "opposite-sides-of-the-coin" comments.

One that says: "Race doesn't matter if we have to dismiss the importance of character"....

Followed by one that says: "Character doesn't matter, if we can demonstrate that we're not racist".

I'll err on the side of 'character', thanks.

- MuscleDaddy

Very well...I will speak more plainly, and speak for my demographic.

We want to get out of Iraq.
We think John McCain is too old.
We think Sarah Palin is a retard.
We think abortion should remain legal.
We go to school with people that are gay....we think samesex marriage should be legal.
We are colorblind to race.
We want to have hope, we are young.
Two thirds of us that voted, voted for Obama. Many of us worked on his campaign.
People do not change their party affiliation as they age any more, when the only difference between the two parties is anti-abortion.
Did the youth of the 60s change their party affiliation when they grew up?
I dont think so.
If you worked for desegregation, you stayed a democrat.

Is that more clear?

Jinnderella,
Why do you want out of Iraq?
Why is John McCain too old? He's still energetic, vigorous, lucid.
Where do you get off flinging off 'Sarah Palin is a retard'? How many states have YOU run? Your criticism is without merit or critical thinking, just a personal attack.
You are NOT colorblind to race. You chose and voted for your candidate SPECIFICALLY FOR HIS COLOR. That's a pretty strong indicator of racism, in a very negative sense.
I didn't vote for McCain. I voted AGAINST Obama, because he didn't demonstrate that he actually had something to offer other than slogans and pep talk, and sure didn't come clean on his deeply disturbing past associations and alliances.

The burden is now COMPLETELY on you to show the wisdom of your judgement. I'll give the man a fair shot to do right by the nation. But he was YOUR CHOICE, so the onus is on YOU to MAKE GOOD.

All right then, my conservative brothers and sisters, it's time to shake off the melancholy. The moment demanded we be gracious in defeat. We have been. Now, who among you will rally? The battle was lost; the war is not. Liberty stands as an eternal principle. Who amongst you will rally now for LIBERTY?

I'm not sure where I heard this, but it fits: "My left flank has been crushed, my right flank routed, the center has fallen back with heavy losses. I shall prevail! Aye, then. Rally!

Mere rhetoric? Absolutely not. Read and consider. We still own the high ground as the loyal opposition. And loyal we must be. Loyal to the republic, the Constitution, and loyal to the office of the presidency. We salute the rank, not the man.

I salute President-Elect Barack Obama even as I disagree with him on every issue. We will not, can not, must not treat him as our political opponents treated President George W. Bush. Our way back must be across the high road be it ever so rocky and full of pitfalls. John McCain set the tone with his concession speech. His attitude is worthy of emulation. Yes, I know, an honorable defeat tastes no less bitter. So spit and expell the bile from your throats. And gird yourselves for the fight ahead.

Let's get radical. I declare myself fully in favor of an unalienable right to FAIL. Let no government guarantee my success, nor the success of any person, institution, or corporation. Those who worship at the tree of liberty demand accountability. Failure is the price we pay. Harsh, you say? Damn right. Life is a harsh mistress. Nature guarantees us only death in the end. When we look death in the teeth, all we can do is smile back.

But liberty springs eternal. Liberty, and liberty alone, is the engine of progress. We must stand for liberty. For now, for ourselves, and for future generations, we stand for liberty. You see, nothing has changed. It's all quite clear. We stand for liberty.

My president-elect, Barack Obama, pledges to deliver "rights" to the disenfranchised, the poor, the failed, and the downtrodden. I reckon Mr. Obama has the easier job. I have nothing to offer but hard work, sweat, heartbreak, blood, failure, more blood and many more defeats. But maybe, just maybe, a victory or two in the mix.

Who then will rally for LIBERTY? Who? Stand then and be counted. Give to me a hearty 'aye' so that I might not stand alone. And if I should stand alone, I will stand proudly.

~Paules Out.

Let me field that question about Palin:

Now that the election is over, new facts about both campaigns are coming to light. This one comes from Fox News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFJr3XRedYU&

McCain's campaign was deeply concerned about Palin's lack of knowledge. She didn't know which countries were in NAFTA. She didn't know Africa was a continent. And she could have been President.

Retarded? No, that's too strong a word. But ignorant? Undeniably, and unacceptably so.

Obama chose Biden as a seasoned and capable right hand man. McCain chose Palin not as an advisor, not as a ready replacement should the worst happen, but as a way to get more votes. It was a bad call, for many reasons, and did him much more harm than good. In fact, fear of a President Palin chased away plenty of voters who might have gone for him otherwise.

On a related note: Not to set up any expectations, but I'd personally like it if Obama made McCain Secretary of Defense. The job will probably go to Gates, if he wants it, but McCain's just the kind of tough old warhorse we need on the wall, and putting him there would go far toward healing the country's divide.

"We want to get out of Iraq."
Oddly enough to those on the left, so do we. We just want to make sure that the job is actually done first. Vietnam and the killing fields of Cambodia are still fresh on many of our minds.

"We think John McCain is too old."
So -- let's see now, what you are getting at is that just because a person is elderly he (she) is therefore incompetent? How many elderly Dem congresmen/women are as old or older than McCain? Are you therefore in favor of mandatory retirement? If a person is too old to serve as president, are they therefore too old to vote or serve on a jury? Are you not therefore biased on the basis of age?

"We think Sarah Palin is a retard."
Well I for one don't. She just doesn't have the Leftist-Elite credentials of having gone to the "proper" schools. Credentials that I believe have become very overrated. Oh, wait, you seem to think that even those Pubs that HAVE those credentials are "retards", right? You know, the leftist slime attack on BushMcChimpHitler? Be specific as to WHY you think she is a so-called retard.

"We think abortion should remain legal."
For the most part, in most cases, I do not, even though I choose not to make it a game-breaking political issue at this time. That so-called fetus is a child once past a certain developmental stage, and aborting it as a matter of convenience is murder.

"We go to school with people that are gay....we think samesex marriage should be legal."
I'll go you one beter -- why don't we just get the .gov out of the marriage business altogether? If you want to shack up, shack up. Traditional minded people will act as if they were married to the benefit of their children. Those who desire alternate lifestyles can do whatever floats their boat. There's no need for the .gov to be involved at all.

"We are colorblind to race."
Bull Sh!t.
You vote for a candidate because of his race, you are therefore NOT colorblind to his race, or that of anyone else. You deflect valid criticism of your candidate based on bogus claims of racism, therefore you are NOT colorblind on race. You support race based preferences in the .gov real (or any other realm) then you are NOT colorblind on race. WE are the ones who are mostly colorblind and are striving to become completely that. We are the ones who judge based on character and platform instead of race.

"We want to have hope, we are young."
You already have hope. You already had a better chance of making it in this life than any other group of people on this planet. You could have achieved whatever you put your mind and effort to, the only one stopping you is yourself. Conservative/Libertarian Capitalism is the very best way to go about having everyone achieve their goals commiserate with the level of effort to do so. It is so sad that the idealistic young
of every generation have to learn this truth (if they ever do) the hard way.

"Two thirds of us that voted, voted for Obama. Many of us worked on his campaign."
And just how many conservatives were so put off by the poor choice in candidates that they stayed home, or voted 3rd party in protest? And how many of those 2/3rds of you were real, live voters and how many were ACORN style ballot box stuffings? BTW -- 53% is not 67%. Forgive me if I'm not impressed.

"People do not change their party affiliation as they age any more, when the only difference between the two parties is anti-abortion."
What a laugher! So, since we are all locked into our political persuasions, there should be no need for campaign ads, right? No need for campaign debates, right? You claim that there are no pro-abortionists within the greater conservative/libertarian political bloc? Think again -- there's quite a few. You need to get your stereotypes right. So, you think that our respective positions on taxation and the economy is insignificant? Think again.
Foreign policy? Likewise. Freedom of the press/religion? The right to keep and bear arms? Security of the borders? I could go on and on. The fact is, there's lots of very significant differences between the Left and the conservatives. By making your claim, you demonstrate that you are either willfully ignorant of the issues or that you are a 1 trick pony interested in 1 and only 1 issue.

"Did the youth of the 60s change their party affiliation when they grew up?"
The Anti-War youth of the '60s and '70s? Some of them -- YES. I know, I'm one of them. Lots of us got a rude awakening during the Carter years. I know I did. I saw what unrestrained extreme leftism did in practice, first hand, while serving our country in the Army. Never Again.

"If you worked for desegregation, you stayed a democrat."
Please explain to me the relationship between Democrats, desegregation, and George Wallace. Please explain to me why an admitted high official in the KKK has elected and re-elected over and again to congress from the Dems. Please explain to me just who it was who ordered the National Guard to enforce said desegregation back in the '50s, and what party did this come from. (Hint -- it wasn't from the Dems) I hate to tell ya', but the true party of desegregation has been the 'Pubs, the Dems were Johny-come-latelys who only jumped on that bandwagon and started wrongly demonizing the 'Pubs when they saw the political gain to be had by that.

"Is that more clear?"
Quite clear. You've been drinking way too much of that kool-aid. And, you have very little grasp on reality.

Mr. Whittle,

I was glad to read your post today.

Barack Obama may be the most damaging choice possible at this point in time, but if you believe in democracy and the strength of your country, you can't think that this man can single-handedly destroy the United States.

I feel bitter that conservatives are consistently attacked on a personal level as racists, warmongers and fascists; and that our political opponents don't ever seem to be able to discuss the issues without reverting to this tactic. I'm bitter that George Bush has been given no credit for his dedication to defeating terrorism, which is a burden he seems to have carried alone against a formidable enemy, a biased media and opposition who shamefully still can not admit that Al Qaeda is fighting in Iraq and that US military and Iraqis have been fighting and defeating them throughout the campaign.

I feel bitter today, but I can't ignore the positive reaction of so many Americans for this new president. It is important that so many people made this choice and will fight for him and the United States to succeed.

As a conservative, the election will leave me disappointed for oh, about a day. The silver lining? Liberals are about to be disappointed for the next four years....

I think that "Sarah Palin is a retard" is putting it far too harshly, and indeed shows a vicious lack of respect.

That being said, I *do* think that Sarah Palin was quite unqualified for the VP spot, and that her selection may have cost John McCain dearly. I predicted she would be a burden at the time, and I'm sad to see that that my prediction has come to pass.

I always have to laugh when I see conservatives talking about things like "freedom" & "individuality". For anyone with a working set of eyes & ears, it is blazingly obvious that Righties are one gigantic mass of control-freaks. Opposing gay marriage? Yeah, that just reeks of support for individuality. Abortion? Well, the men of the Right certainly seem to be under the impression that they actually should have a say in what a woman chooses to do with her own body (it's laughable that ANY man would be so arrogant, as they are not the ones who endure the misery; only the orgasm). And how about that support for diverse religions? Wow... Dubya really demonstrated a love of individuality, when he stated that "Wicca isn't a real religion".

Speaking of religion, you Righties certainly aren't very keen on living by the standards of your much-coveted Holy Bible. Isn't GREED one of the Seven Deadly Sins? Isn't Capitalism nothing more than the worship of "the root of all evil"? Isn't it funny how most Righties are of the super-wealthy demographic? Isn't it fascinating that these "good Christian folks" are so opposed to wealth redistribution? Could it be that Conservatives are nothing more than self-serving Satanists in "lamb of god" window dressing? Look up the works of Anton LaVey, and you'll find that his ideologies are startlingly similar to those of the Conservative Republican party (well, minus the bits about sexual freedom).

Yes, the 'Pubs are truly a swirling pool of irony & contradictions. They love their guns (which they use to kill things) but are quick to dub abortion as "murder". They claim to hold high moral standards, but feel no pangs of guilt while eating a sandwich in front of a starving homeless man (after all, he's just lazy and deserves to rot away in his self-made hell). They say they are Christians who follow the teachings of Jesus, but have yet to "turn the other cheek" when smited by perceived foriegn enemies ("kill 'em all" is the *real* national anthem, in Mighty Rightie World).

And last but not least, there is that OUTSTANDING support for the rights & advancement of African Americans.

Oh, wait...

So, why didn't Mayor McCheese... uh, I mean John McCain, pick Condi Rice as his VP candidate? I guess if you're a Black Republican, you can only go so far up the ladder, and any desire to go further would be viewed as "uppity". But still, despite the Righties hatred of Uncle Toms who don't know their place, wouldn't it have been a smart political move?

Oh, wait... McShell-shocked isn't exactly Mensa material (that's putting it lightly). He wasn't even smart enough to dodge the draft of a senseless, bloody war. There is a fine line between "hero" & "idiot"; guess where McStupid falls? He also strikes me as a "button-pusher". Did anyone else see the way he twitched, during the debates? I thought he was going to leap out of his chair and attack Obama, at any given minute. His facial expressions mirrored those of a few infamous serial killers. I wondered "who pulled the ring out of this guy's grenade?". It's a good thing he lost; I'd rather not see the live TV version of "John's Ladder" (Isn't this the same guy who referred to himself as "Luke Skywalker"? LOL Oh dear... the straightjacket is calling, John. OBEY).

So, uh, in other news... OBAMA WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear YCHO

I know you think you are being clever. I know you think you are speaking truth to power. I know you think you show great insight. I know you feel you are being profound. I know you assume you've really put together some strong points there.

Everyone ELSE here -- including the erudite and intelligent liberals who have joined us today -- knows you are a teenager with learning disabilities, the product of the public school system whose infantile attempts to play with the grown ups not only causes the neon sign around your neck to flash IDIOT, but also demeans the the very causes to hope to champion.

Let me rephrase that in terms you can more easily understand: You are so clearly a museum-grade moron than anything you say is almost certainly false. I say ALMOST certainly because even a stopped watch is correct twice a day. Perhaps if you ask nicely, someone here will explain that to you as well.

Run along, now. Oh, by the way, here's something for your self-esteem collection: GOOD JOB, SPECIAL NEEDS COMMENTATOR!

Two small disagrements: I'd say racism is far from the only stain on our national character. Just the biggest.

Second, no, sorry, there are any number of us who understand exactly what conservatives have to say. We even want many of the same things in life: having our government refrain from interfering in our living our lives the best way we can, for one. We just disagree with you on the best way to get there for the greatest number of us.

Nice to see that most of the comments today are sensible and mature until "you can't handle Obamamania" appeared.

I too like other Aussies have watchrd the electioneering for the past months and even though I'd be a conservative at heart, blind Freddy could see what was about to happen.

The Republican's had an almost impossible task to overcome Bush's reputation. No matter what his strengths may have been, perception is everything when it come to marketing something and Bush wasn't viewed in a very positive light.

As we say downunder, even a drovers dog could have won this election if it was going up against the Republicans, especially with a smooth marketing campaign behind him.

Now that the decision has been made who the new leader is, it will be interesting to see if the rhetoric matches what actually happens.

If American's are united all of a sudden because Obama says so, I think his first course of action would be to get his fellow African-Americans to start referring to themselves as Americans. So too the Latinos, etc. One name for one nations citizenship would be nice.

Probably will never happen though.

Don't fret. We elected a clown and 12 months down the track the cracks are beginning to appear.

Here's a good fight back plan to use against the media. Refuse to buy anything that is advertised in the media outlet you despise. They'll run out of money sooner or later.

Whittle for President next time around!!

Hi there, Bill. : )

So, what exactly do you have against the public school system? I'm sad to see that you find pleasure in poking fun at children who's parents cannot afford to send them to a luxury private school (complete with butt-wiping butlers on demand).

I see you were unable to refute any of the statements I made. Looks pretty much like 100% personal attacks (and very misinformed ones, at that). Checkmate?

Just you watch, Billy Boy will ban me. Those Pubs HATE free speech.

Notice how he said absolutely NOTHING about some of the unsavory comments posted by his fellow Righties?

FEEL the double standard.

YCHO

Mr. Obama wants us all to get along. Can't you cooperate just a bit.
Thanks,

YCHO - shut up. You're a guest here. You're not entitled to a voice at someone else's place. This isn't your website.

I wonder what John McCain is doing right now?

I wonder if John McCain even knows what John McCain is doing right now?

*cue Twilight Zone theme*

To YCHO: I see your point of view and I agree that the extreme right views are deemed acceptable by Bill but not the leftist views. However, you could also show some respect for McCain instead of berating him because of his age.

To YCHO: I see your point of view and I agree that the extreme right views are deemed acceptable by Bill but not the leftist views. However, you could also show some respect for McCain instead of berating him because of his age.

@ assiebob: I don't think Obama would get along with the people who have trashed him, here.

@ likwidshoe: Well, spoken like a true totalitarian Pubby. Free clue: This isn't your website either. So why don't YOU shut up?

Captain Canada: I didn't say anything about his age. You might want to read that again.

I am suggesting that he is mentally unfit, and capable of Nam Flashbacks.

YCHO: Alright, ridiculing him for the long-term degenerative effects of torture in POW camps is even more shameful. Lets celebrate Obama's victory with grace, instead of shameful character assassination that is the hallmark of the far right.

Sorry, not hallmark, I meant trademark. IT is getting late here in Calgary and my mental dexterity is slipping in the late hours/

I'll leave you all in your safe little bubble, now.

Since nobody (including Billy) can refute the points I made in my initial post, there is no reason to hang around.

Anyhow, thanks for reinforcing my beliefs about the Elephant crowd.

Bill Whittle: Three months ago, you adamantly asserted that McCain is going to wipe the floor with Obama in the election. I am referring to an episode of "The Charles Adler Show" (radio) in Canada,on which you were being interviewed. Why were you so sure of that?

Hi Bill, I stopped by to see how your gracious post was received, added a few lines of my own and came back to check on things.

It appears that grace may be a fossil requiring an archealogical dig in some quarters, but I certainly want to continue to support yours...not realizing, until very recently, what a wonderfully rare commodity it truly is.

The fanatics who, with eyes bulging and flecks of spittle rocketing from their lips with ever spattering rage, certainly don't leave much room for reason or rational thought.

I presume you don't fill empty vessels or feed trolls, so I wanted to send you my fondest regards for a job well done on your article printed here, so that this commentary ended in a tone that should have prevailed.

Honor, integrity, decency should be rewarded.

I wrote a comment at PJM in RR's portion of the site about a similar issue with the bulge and spittle corps.

It is high time to frame them out of existence and relevance.

Passion and eloquence is a beautiful combination. Passion and idiocy is like listening to a rock concert decibel level of an accordian and a kazoo played during a catfight.

You deserve better. Your article was brilliant. My compliments.

Fillibuster

It didn't take long for my post at 6:01 yesterday to be proven true, did it?

Here is a letter I wrote early this year. Thanks for your column today. It was a reminder.

Editor, February 29, 2008
Both times President Bush was elected I strongly supported him. Now, after witnessing the actions of others, when our country is at war, I have constructed a few rules which I will follow.
In the future I will refrain from being publicly disrespectful of a president. In wartime, I will not hope for failure so my party can regain political power. I will not support a president who quits a war for the sake of popular opinion. I will not support a president if we are repeatedly attacked and he does not take appropriate action. If I oppose a war, it will last until our blood is shed, then opposition will stop. It is a good thing to criticize the conduct of a war, but criticisms should be geared towards victory.
President Bush is commander in chief of our armed forces. Many members of the opposing party have tried to defeat him politically by facilitating and hoping for failure in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars; wars many of them voted to finance and wage. I have learned from this selfish performance. Just as I support the current war and president, I will be just as resolute in support of a future president from an opposing party.

Your comments stand in stark contrast to Maya Angelou:

"America is now great! Together we can be somebody."

Funny, I thought America was as great on November 3, 2008 as I do now.

I Voted - And I voted in a way that my vote was not purchased through income re-distribution by the federal government or through a four to one commercial buy on television. The Main Stream Media did not suppress my vote or depress this voter even though I live in a bankrupt Blue State that is 18 Billion dollars in debt.

I pray that this guy, Barack Obama, may turn this ship around ... but I have my doubts.

Great Post - your article was brilliant. Thanks.

Thanks, YCHO, for putting a smile on my face this morning.

It is a truism that when you write (or speak), it says more about your own character than whatever is the subject under discusssion.

You prove the point so beautifully, that I am in total awe.

- Tanka

Fetterkey wrote November 5, 2008 7:13 PM:
I predicted she would be a burden at the time, and I'm sad to see that that my prediction has come to pass.

Only in your own mind. And in mine, she was what made the contest close. And absent the financial crisis 6 weeks beforehand, the election probably would've gone the other way.

Conservatives need to start making plans and taking action right now, while we're still energized and concerned.

Specifically, we must plan for the worst:

Assume that Obama and the Democrats are going to run this country like a Chicago political machine -- all policies, all branches of government operating for the sole purpose of maintaining their party's lock on control.

How can Republicans counter that? In particular, how can we counter their monopoly on mass media, especially in the face of the coming suppression of conservative media outlets? Blogs and websites only preach to the choir -- how can we get our message to the people?

Second, how can we undo the decades of work the liberals have put into controlling and corrupting all our educational institutions. Right now, from kindergarten to graduate school is a continual process of leftist indoctrination, and at every level hiring decisions discourage and freeze out conservatives. How can we fight this?

Right now all I hear are hopes that some new Reagan will emerge after four years to lead the nation back to the conservative promised land, but there isn't anyone with his gifts on the national political scene and the Democrats are working hard to make sure that never happens (just look at how they've got conservatives taking shots at Palin).

We have been playing their game, by rules which emphasize their advantages. How do we change the rules, or play a different game which will take advantage of our strengths? And what are those strengths?

It's all very well to talk about fighting and resisting and such, but what actual, practical steps can we take?

dichroic wrote November 5, 2008 10:30 PM:
I'd say racism is far from the only stain on our national character. Just the biggest.

I'd have to agree with that sentiment. I'm sure that one day people will realize that it is a Bad Thing to judge people because of their race. Then, and only then, we can finally end "affirmative action".

dichroic wrote November 5, 2008 10:30 PM:
We even want many of the same things in life: having our government refrain from interfering in our living our lives the best way we can, for one. We just disagree with you on the best way to get there for the greatest number of us.

Having the government take from the more productive to give to the less productive doesn't seem much like "refrain from interfering". Maybe I'll find it in a Newspeak dictionary.

You-mania wrote November 5, 2008 10:42 PM:
public school system... children who's parents cannot afford to send them to a luxury private school (complete with butt-wiping butlers on demand).

Most private schools cost less than half as much as public schools and do a significantly better job. But if you look hard, I'm sure you, too, can pay for the wiping of your choice.

Checkmate?

Well-spelled. Glad you're curious about the answer.

You-mania wrote November 5, 2008 10:58 PM:
Those Pubs HATE free speech.

Another one who is clueless about the meaning of Free Speech.

"In particular, how can we counter their monopoly on mass media, especially in the face of the coming suppression of conservative media outlets? Blogs and websites only preach to the choir -- how can we get our message to the people?"
Big question. Good question. The solution of which will require big thoughts and big actions.

Here's some ideas:
A> Billboards. Too high to deface, the MSM don't control them, and people look at them every day.
B> If we can't hold the MSM accountable, we can apply pressure to their advertisers -- the ones holding the purse strings. Money talks.
C> Fox News gives the left apoplexy. Why? Because they don't toe the leftist line. They are viable, non-biased competition. We need more like them. They say that you don't pick fights with people who buy ink by the barrel. The answer is to start buying ink by the barrel ourselves. Identify key media markets where monopoly bias exists and introduce non-biased media competition. In those markets where non-biased media competition already exists we need to patronize them. We already know that this works -- we already know that the conservative message is more than competitive when it is voiced, witness the success of conservative talk radio and the abject failure of leftist talk radio.

"Second, how can we undo the decades of work the liberals have put into controlling and corrupting all our educational institutions. Right now, from kindergarten to graduate school is a continual process of leftist indoctrination, and at every level hiring decisions discourage and freeze out conservatives. How can we fight this?"
A> Private school.
B> Home school.
C> Fight the school unions at all levels.
D> Get involved in your local school governing bodies. Pay attention to the positions of those who run for the school boards. I know it is hard to do, they try and obfuscate, but do it anyway. Don't sit around and whine about it -- get involved! DO something!

"Right now all I hear are hopes that some new Reagan will emerge after four years to lead the nation back to the conservative promised land, but there isn't anyone with his gifts on the national political scene and the Democrats are working hard to make sure that never happens"
Of course the Dems are demonizing anyone who would challenge them -- now that they've got the reins of power they are doing anything they can to keep them. By any means necessary. It is sad that good, competent conservatives who would have made viable candidates have been put off by the mudraking and demonizing of the opposition. OTOH, it serves as a winnowing -- we don't want someone at the top who can't take that kind of heat. Believe it or not, there are still some young, energized conservatives out there who can take up the mantle and are not put off by the evil tactics of the left. Don't worry, they'll be there. We just have to actually support them. One good thing about having the O being elected this time around -- the lack of an extensive resume has now become a non-issue. That means that we can promote an up and comer without having to wait several election cycles for the resume to be built. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I too congratulate Obama on becoming the first African-American to be elected president.

No, the deck was not stacked against him so much as it was against McCain-Palin: an unpopular president beaten down by the media; a hostile media that was on cloud nine over Obama, even as they threw Hillary overboard in favor of him; a banking meltdown created by the victor's own party, a crisis that leading Republicans, including McCain and Bush, tried to avert, unsuccessfully, thanks to the Dems; and, let's face it, it didn't hurt that Obama's grandmother, to whom he was very close, died the day before the election (sorry if that sounds cold, but I'm only stating a fact).

Joe wrote November 6, 2008 8:19 AM:
it didn't hurt that Obama's grandmother, to whom he was very close, died the day before the election (sorry if that sounds cold, but I'm only stating a fact).

I, for one, don't think that that affected any votes to speak of. I don't think it's a "fact".

qwer, when I first posted that Governor Palin would be a burden and suggested an Eagleton scenario, you said, as part of a rather condescending post,
"Interesting viewpoint. You may be right. Fortunately, we won't have long to wait to find out if your thought is close to reality... At any rate, good luck with your predictions. Please let us know if they turn out to be right."

Well, the election is over, and it turns out I was indeed right. Exit polls indicate that independents and moderates who considered Palin an important factor in their vote predominantly went Obama. Most of those polled also said that Palin was unqualified to be President, while a majority said Biden was qualified. Palin's unfavorables in earlier polls and surveys were good signs of this, but they went unheeded by most, especially considering the fabled inaccuracy of election polling. However, the polls were pretty much right on the money this time.

That being said, I'm certainly not saying Governor Palin cost McCain the election all by herself. A combination of many factors cost McCain the election, including unanticipated numbers of young/new voters, PUMA, the media's "Wright burnout," and the financial crisis/inane "campaign suspension." However, Palin was certainly another one of those negative factors.

It's now clear that Governor Palin was a bad choice, and I hope we can prevent her from moving up in the party and damaging it in 2012 as well.

GB in TX responds to my plea:

"In particular, how can we counter their monopoly on mass media, especially in the face of the coming suppression of conservative media outlets? Blogs and websites only preach to the choir -- how can we get our message to the people?"

...Here's some ideas:
A> Billboards. Too high to deface, the MSM don't control them, and people look at them every day.

Not to sound snide, but that's it? Reduce our message to four-word billboard slogans and try to stay one jump ahead of the activists with spray paint? No, it has to be something with comparable reach and authority to the mainstream media.

B> If we can't hold the MSM accountable, we can apply pressure to their advertisers -- the ones holding the purse strings. Money talks.

Boygotts have been tried and tried and tried and tried. They're toothless. Even the Left has discovered that much -- remember their "not one dime" day a few years back to protest, oh, whatever it was they were protesting that week? Not a blip.

C> Fox News gives the left apoplexy. Why? Because they don't toe the leftist line. They are viable, non-biased competition. We need more like them. They say that you don't pick fights with people who buy ink by the barrel. The answer is to start buying ink by the barrel ourselves. Identify key media markets where monopoly bias exists and introduce non-biased media competition. In those markets where non-biased media competition already exists we need to patronize them. We already know that this works -- we already know that the conservative message is more than competitive when it is voiced, witness the success of conservative talk radio and the abject failure of leftist talk radio.

Fox is busy tacking to the left precisely to avoid getting hammered with some kind of "Fairness Doctrine" meddling. Starting up our own media outlets would be a fine idea -- if you've got a couple of hundred million bucks to spare I'll happily be your editor. Trouble is, all the billionaires seem to be liberals nowadays.

"Second, how can we undo the decades of work the liberals have put into controlling and corrupting all our educational institutions. Right now, from kindergarten to graduate school is a continual process of leftist indoctrination, and at every level hiring decisions discourage and freeze out conservatives. How can we fight this?"
A> Private school.
B> Home school.

I'm doing that now with one kid. How long before the liberals start making it more and more difficult?

C> Fight the school unions at all levels.

How? I'm not being snarky, either. How do private citizens fight against national unions? I'm a parent -- do I piss off my kid's teachers and endanger his education?

D> Get involved in your local school governing bodies. Pay attention to the positions of those who run for the school boards. I know it is hard to do, they try and obfuscate, but do it anyway. Don't sit around and whine about it -- get involved! DO something!

That's a good idea, and one which any parent can do given the time and enthusiasm. But again, we're spitting into the wind here. I might be able to affect the school board makeup in my little town, but I'm not going to challenge the liberal monopoly at the college level.

Both of these issues reflect the fundamental nature of the problem: the liberals, by accident or design, have gotten solidly entrenched in government bureaucracy, academia, and the media. Any conservative efforts to dislodge them will be like chipping at the Rock of Gibraltar with a teaspoon.

I'd prefer to outflank them and make their fortresses obsolete. Don't fight their strong points, go around and choke them off. Now that's a fine metaphor, but how to translate it into reality? Anybody?

The Third Option
Like Most of you I woke up today depressed knowing before I turned on the TV that Obamma had won. It might well be that I am wrong about this man and his vision. I pray that is the case. I hope that once he gets into the White house he realizes that a great many people who supported him will not be dragged into his extreme leftist agenda. I believe he will have to Govern from the center.
In a way, its good that the democrats have control of the government. For now they will be without excuse. If things go badly, It will be a dark matter for the King who led them to it. I believe that after 4 years his excuses that the current problems are still the result of 8 years of republican rule are still un fixable will begin to ring hollow. They are not going to be able to play the blame game next time around. America is to great, to powerful to be brought low by one administration. I believe we have survived bad presidents before I believe that we will again.
We are not through the looking glass. Not yet anyway. America is still America, and the vast number of people in this country were just TIRED of the same old crap that we have been giving them. I have never ever seen in my lifetime a president more reviled than George W. I don’t believe any president has been tested as severely as this president in recent memory. I believe he made mistakes Costly mistakes in both foreign and domestic policies. I believe that they were sincere mistakes. I also believe that sometimes you have to do what is RIGHT, regardless of whether its going to be popular or not. Regardless of the Cost. Getting rid of Saddam and trying to rebuild Iraq were the right things to do. Anyone who thinks that we are not safer because of his removal, is an ignorant fool. Removing this mad man and allowing the democrats to decry the “high cost of this illegal an immoral war” is the price that must be paid for doing the Right thing. If it means that we have to endure 8 years of the dems having their own way, in the long run, I say So be it. The damage that even a two term president can do to the country is repairable, the damage that a nuclear weapon detonating in NYC is not.
Please to the liberals who read this post, don’t argue with me about this. It will just display your wanton disregard for reality. Whether he had them or not, whether he was seeking them or not, is now a moot point. The fact is that he WANTED them. Because he wants what every raghead jihadi over there wants, POWER. This is not about culture, this not about religion. Those are the facade that the people in power use to control the masses. This is about power. The power to force women to do their bidding, the power to make every one fear them. It is what this has always been about. They believe that the only way to that power is a nuclear weapon. They mistakenly think that owning one will force us to bargain with them. Forgetting that Both Russia and China have had nuclear weapons for over 50 years and they both lost the cold war. This is a man that used chemical weapons against the Kurds. He had the will to use weapons of mass destruction. If he’d had a nuke or could have obtained one, he’d have used it, or he would have given it to someone who would. Also please do not point out that saddam was a secularist and bowed to the Alter of Torak out of appeasement to his extremist allies whom he KNEW he had to control and manipulate in order to maintain what he craved. POWER.
This is why I laugh when the Liberals say that its US policies that created Terrorism. Our policies can change our presidency can change everything can change, as Obamma is so Fond of saying, but regardless of how much we change one thing will never change and that is this, to the extremists, you have two choices, convert or die. To convert is to spend the rest of your life with the oppressors boot on your neck. To die, well I’d rather die standing than live on my knees or crawling on my belly. There is of course a third course of action, One that they desperately do not want you to think of, and that is to stand and fight. They will be merciless to all who do because they fear the free willed. The fearless. For over them they are powerless.
The long tough journey begins today. Its time to begin taking back America. A conversation at a time. Not with rhetoric. But with careful reasoned argument. Not with venom, but with articulate and passionate debate. If we are to survive we must “find our voice” we can no longer be the “silent majority”. We must be the ground swell of reason and logic. We must not scream and point fingers when “The ONE” stumbles as he will inevitably will. We must be better than that. We must patiently and reasonably explain why he failed. We must all educate ourselves on every issue. We must be prepared to silence every critic, and answer every question.
When our enemies stand and scream, we must be silent. We have to be what we are, whish is BETTER than them. We must Stand together and Fight. We must take the Third Option. The road will be long, the enemy is deeply entrenched and his has the allies of a completely corrupted media and entertainment industry at his disposal. They will not go quietly. But GO they must. WE all of us have been called to Battle, Not a physical one, but a battle of Ideals. In defense of a way of life. We must begin today. We must begin with those who are like minded, organizing ourselves for the day of maximum effort. IN four years, we MUST begin by taking the High Ground, and that is the Presidency of the United States. We must begin now to weaken and undermine the Enemy on all fronts. We must begin by converting those that we know that do not think as we do. We must convince them of the soundness of our point of view. We must STAND and FIGHT. The proud Warrior who Gave us those words, may have fallen by the way side. But it is up to US all of us to pick up that banner, Unfurl it and charge the Enemies Lines. STAND AND FIGHT! STAND AND FIGHT! STAND AND FIGHT!
My friends The ONLY option is the THIRD OPTION. To this end I Pledge my Life, my fortune and my Sacred honor.

I think the saddest thing about today is going to the conservative blogs and news sites and finding the same thing there as here. It's a time for truth-telling, so I'll tell the truth.

We're gathered together as at a wake, taking comfort from each other, thinking about the good things and vowing not to repeat the bad. Looking ahead to how we can re-shape our lives.

Then comes rufus and YCHO and their cohorts. They didn't come to these places for comfort, nor out of vulgar curiosity, nor even an empathic sympathy. They didn't come to speak of victorious righteousness, nor of a dream fulfilled, not triumph, nor justice.

They don't want justice. They want revenge. They want to gloat. They want to rub our faces in the dirt. But most of all, they want us to be just like them.

And maybe for a very brief time on 11/04, I was just like them. I railed against Fate, I wanted it to be a fraud, I wanted it suddenly to be different. How could others be happy, how could we congratulate those [expletive deleted]s, can't they see, how dare they?

But unlike them, I am ashamed. And now I will do better.

- Tanka

Eight years under George Bush's administration and the USA is currently a mess. Need I say more?

Eight years under George Bush's administration and the USA is currently a mess. Need I say more?

Kindly kick us and let up, Dave.

- Tanka

Let’s remember that Obama also wants to be re-elected. But of course he has raised a huge amount of expectation among the global Left. So when he fails to immediately surrender to the Taliban, apologize to al-Qaeda, kowtow to Hugo Chavez, and deliver up the Israelis on a platter, just watch how quickly the “Left” will turn on him (World Can’t Wait has already started). They will learn that their quarrel was not with that murderous fascist Bush (sarc) (who inexplicably handed over power to the opposition in a very milk-and-waterish display of fascism) but rather with the incurably arrogant, greedy, coarse, unilateralist, capitalist-imperialist America people themselves, darn them.

I even predict that the Islamic “press” will soon be calling Obama an apostate from Islam and a “black cowboy” or perhaps even (with their usual cultural sensitivity and savoir-faire) a “n____r cowboy.”
And that is approximately when—-feeling so cruelly let down by BHO—-al-Qaeda will hit us again (HT to Joe Biden).

Eight years under George Bush's administration and the USA is currently a mess. Need I say more?

No Dave.

North Korea is a mess. Iran is a mess. Pakistan is a mess. Cuba is a mess. Darfur is a mess. By any objective standard the USA is a relative paradise.

No Dave, you need not say more.

Svin

Mike Reynolds,

"So when he fails to immediately surrender to the Taliban, apologize to al-Qaeda, kowtow to Hugo Chavez, and deliver up the Israelis on a platter,..."

Hmmm... what makes you think he'll fail to do these things?

- MuscleDaddy

Like I said: he wants to be reelected. Surely you are not one of those who feels that the American people *want* these things and are therefore too stupid to deserve Democracy?

Fetterkey wrote November 6, 2008 11:26 AM
as part of a rather condescending post

You couch your opinion as fact but don't like that style coming back? Well, it's your choice; and mine.

Well, the election is over, and it turns out I was indeed right.

Glad you remember. But I disagree with your view of Palin's impact on the ticket in the election. To put it simply, in your terms, you are not right.

Exit polls indicate that independents and moderates who considered Palin an important factor in their vote predominantly went Obama. Most of those polled also said that Palin was unqualified to be President, while a majority said Biden was qualified.

You may very well believe exit polls are a representative sample of the voters. I don't. I'm not alone. For example the polling organization Public Opinion Strategies warned this election cycle that historically, exit polls have tended to overstate the liberal (which is to say "moderate") vote. Just ask the man who won the 2004 election exit polls: Kerry.

However, the polls were pretty much right on the money this time.

Really? I recall at one point, the polls had McCain/Palin ahead by 6%. Is that what you meant? I thought not. Then perhaps you can point to a poll which was accurate and also included the data that supports your Palin opinion. I'm fine with you having an opinion -- I just disagree with calling it a fact.

That being said, I'm certainly not saying Governor Palin cost McCain the election all by herself.

And I'm saying that with a different, more mainstream VP choice, McCain would not have had a chance.

However, Palin was certainly another one of those negative factors.

Unfortunately, while Palin was certainly a positive factor, it was not enough to overcome the deux ex machina crisis.

It's now clear that Governor Palin was a bad choice, and I hope we can prevent her from moving up in the party and damaging it in 2012 as well.

Actually, I believe it's now clear that Palin was a marvelous choice, and I hope she will run in 2012 -- without the negative baggage that McCain brought to the ticket.

Mike,
They dont want to surrender to the Taliban.
They want to bring the troops home!

They dont want to apologize to Al-Quieda.
They want to establish diplomatic talks without pre-conditions.

They dont want to kowtow to Hugo Chavez.
They want to restore America's image in the eyes of the world.

They dont want to deliver Israel on a platter.
They want to be more fair to the Palestinians.

I see the difference now.

Newspeak was much more fun in the original story.

Svin

Dave wrote November 6, 2008 12:49 PM:
Eight years under George Bush's administration and the USA is currently a mess.

Did you mean just like Clinton in Nov, 2000? Or was this some special esoteric incantation?

Qwer quotes "Really? I recall at one point, the polls had McCain/Palin ahead by 6%"
When was this?
In regards to Sarah Palin: I can't believe how a person who vehemently denounces the science of evolution can be taken seriously for a position that requires sound judgement and keen intellect. I don't care if you are democrat or a republican.

Surely my Dad was right when he used to tell me, "Piss-poor losers always make piss-poor winners." (excuse my language)

As a child, he trotted out that saying if I gloated when I won or pouted when I lost, and thereby broke me of that ugly habit. It horrified my Mom, but he got his point across --just his poor lower class way of expressing the idea that it's poor sportmanship to kick a man when he's down.

- Tanka

qwer wrote: And I'm saying that with a different, more mainstream VP choice, McCain would not have had a chance.

This is quite likely true. However, seeing as how the financial-crisis-that-just keeps-giving, and McCain's reactions to it, undoubtedly contributed to his loss, I wonder if Mitt Romney might not have shored-up his support and instilled needed confidence on this issue. Perhaps, in some quantum-forking-otherverse, President-elect McCain and Vice-President-elect Romney are smiling [through the hate] over this startling election momentum shifter even as I write.

and I hope she will run in 2012

I have little doubt that she will - but mayhaps by then her star will have dimmed, having been obscured and overpowered by the fulgent freshness of that careening conservative freight-train called Bobby Jindal.

One of the things that I like about this winning electorate's mindset is that they don't like Hollywood's darling movies, either. And it's not only their rejection of the anti-Iraq-War US-soldiers-are-murderers movies. Last year, as with 2006, 14 movies did better than the top Best Pix nominee. In each of 2005 and 2004, 21 movies did better. What Hollywood likes has an attendance problem.

I'm pleased that the majority of voters don't share the same mindset as the Hollywood elite. Now, with the big-gov-GOP given a well-deserved deflation, maybe that anti-elite viewpoint can be tapped.

Captain Canada wrote November 6, 2008 3:00 PM:
Qwer quotes "Really? I recall at one point, the polls had McCain/Palin ahead by 6%"
When was this?

Just after the RNC convention the USA Today/Gallup tracking poll had McCain/Palin up among likely voters 54% to 44%, interviewing over September 5-7. I mis-spoke, I meant "ahead by over 6%" -- I couldn't remember the exact number.

In regards to Sarah Palin: I can't believe how a person who vehemently denounces the science of evolution can be taken seriously for a position that requires sound judgement and keen intellect.

I find that no worse than people who vehemently believe in Man-Made Global Warming. Actually, I find it a bit better than that -- I don't think denying evolution is going to damage the economy.

Tyrone Slothrop wrote November 6, 2008 3:16 PM:
I wonder if Mitt Romney might not have shored-up his support and instilled needed confidence on this issue.

Always good to wonder. I doubt it would have had offset the negative of his being seen as a Mormon, though.

obscured and overpowered by the fulgent freshness of that careening conservative freight-train called Bobby Jindal.

Possibly. I suspect that she will continue to show a better command in public speaking. And Jindal has perhaps more serious issues regarding evolution in schools in his state.

But Alaska is a faraway place. And four years is a long time -- plenty for a couple more new faces to appear. OTOH, it's also enough time for her to moderate her rhetoric to comply with the national stage.

Well, I was going to go on my way, never to return to this blog. But, I thought "Maybe one of them actually posted a legitimate criticism of my post". So, I decided to check back... hmmm no such luck.

It seems that deflective spelling lames are the gist of this crowd's defense. LOL Very sad... and very typical. I in fact saw several spelling & grammatical mistakes made by these hypocritical Pubbies, but *gasp* nobody called them on it. No surprise there.

But hey, thank you all for proving me correct; your snotty, elitist classism is showing nicely.

All it took was a factual, albeit humorous, comment posted by myself... and the Righties' true nature reared it's ugly head.

Billy Boy's piece of faux humble pie doesn't fool me for a minute; this article is for appearances only. Judging by the comments that followed (which were not reprimanded by Billy himself), there is great hatred brewing beneath this calm surface. A hatred that Billy, apparently, approves of.

America has been under Republican leadership for 8 years... so why are you people "sad" and "depressed" because a Democrat is getting his turn under the wheel? Strange.

Could it be because, as I stated before, Righties want to control everything... ALL OF THE TIME? Yeah, me thinks that is it.

You are all behaving like a bunch of spoiled children, crying in your little pillows because, after 8 years of *your kind* being in control, you can't stand the idea of handing over that power to someone who doesn't share your ideals... one of us "dirty, uneducated, inferior Lefties".

Lastly, I honestly laughed out loud when I saw one of you (I don't remember which one, as you all look alike to me) dub yourself as "productive". The majority of Republicans were born into wealth, am I right? Free clue: Luck & productivity are NOT synonamous. Most of your high-profile jobs were given to you based on whom you know or who you're related to. Perhaps, a friend of a friend of a friend hooked you up? Oh yes, that is *truly* some hard-earned capitol.

The guy with the "Will work for food" sign is far more productive than any of you thin-skinned desk jockeys could *ever* claim to be.

If input = output, wouldn't migrant workers be billionaires by now? I suggest you all think long & hard about this, before you even suggest that the poor are lazy & unproductive.

And here comes YCHO just in time to prove my point -- tah-dah!

Hold your applause, please.

- Tanka

Hello, Tanka.

The fact that you have no rebuttal to offer... is hereby noted.

Now down in Oz we don't have your custom of tipping so I can't apply this idea down here, but thought you Yanks can go crazy with this.

Idea is from ksbsknowhowl in the comments section over at Rachel's blog:

I’ll be spreading the wealth the whole time Obama is president. The wife and I have decided that we will leave a note in place of a tip every time we eat out during Obama’s presidency.

“Please thank Overlord Obama for his teachings on spreading wealth. Your tip will be donated to a homeless charity so that those less fortunate than you can benefit from your hard work.”

Just love it.

Hope your not a waiter YCHO.

While I respect Bill for his gracious words in congratulating the president-elect, I am very tempted to offer Mr. Obama the same sort of respect that Pres. Bush got from the left for the past eight years.

What a fascinating post, aussiebob.

Question: Why is the rich man in your story punishing the hard-working waitor for his own tight-fisted greed? Can he not tip the waitor AND donate to charity? Would that not be the Christian thing to do?

*waiter

(I probably shouldn't have corrected that error; I wouldn't want to rob the Pubs of their limited ammo)

The following is a link to a map of VA showing how each county and independent city voted. Note that ALL counties west of Montgomery County voted for McCain. You'd have a really hard time finding a whole lot of folks who were given "high profile" jobs there This area traditionally has the highest unemployment in the state, yet they still voted for the old guy. These are people who get their hands dirty, by the way. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/election_night_2008/election_map_premium/index.html?SITE=CSPANELN&SECTION=POLITICS

No mate......he's not rich, just going out to dinner with his missus.

And he's acting just like Obama in making a decision about how to distribute someone elses income. Great idea really. You know, free to choose an all that.

It's interesting, though not at all surprising, to see how many sore-winner Obamanauts are showing up here to piss in the pool. Just as they carried hatred and vitriol for Bush and conservatives the past eight years, they continue to erupt in hatred and anger even when the candidate they chose is poised to take power. In this way, they are like little children who don't yet understand the social graces--and, at this point in their lives, such niceties may forever escape them.

BTW, I come from a family of six children and all the time I was growing up we lived well below the poverty line, though my mother was clever enough at budgeting and going without that we did not take any kind of government aid until my father died and we received his Social Security benefits. My spouse and I now fit squarely into the middle class. The hell with the misbegotten idea that most Republicans were "born into wealth"--most of us know keenly what it is to be poor, and that is *exactly* why we believe we should be allowed to keep and spend our own money the way WE see fit.

Brinster, if I may ask, what is the racial demographic of this area?

If it is mostly white, this could very well be a case of voting for the "lesser evil".

Which is it going to be ycho, wealth that was given or racism? Or maybe both? The whole country is "mostly white," so why should that make any difference?

By the way, the small town where I live voted in a black sheriff about 12 years ago, and he'll probably keep that office as long as he wants it, because we'll keep on voting for him.

Pirate King, I am not saying that all Pubs are born into wealth, but I can honestly say that I've never met even ONE poor Republican.

If you indeed came from humble beginnings, then you of all people should know the misery of it... and in addition, be willing to do your part to assist your fellow human being. Your mentality is difficult for me to understand, because I am not consumed by the "ME, ME, ME, MINE, MINE, MINE" plague.

This country cannot advance in unison, if just one of our citizens are hungry, living in a cardboard box, sleeping on a sidewalk, etc.

Maybe you can pass these people on the street and ignore their suffering, but I cannot.

Guys - Don't Feed.

He's like a pigeon - as long as you sit on the bench tossing out popcorn, he'll just keep eating it.

He won't go away, and he won't do anything useful - just crap all over the sidewalk in front of you.

Close the popcorn bag - and walk away.

- MuscleDaddy

Brinster: You may not be motivated by race, but there are still other people out there who are.

I used to live in a little bubble, and I thought "Racism is dead". It took the internet to convince me that my fellow whites were not as accepting of black people as they presented themselves to be, out in the real world.

For any of the sore winner types wondering about why people have a problem with Democrats winning, I have an answer:

A lot of us live downwind of high-value targets.

The inhabitants of Tel-Aviv and Manhattan have been well-advised to kiss their butts goodbye ever since the decision was made not to tackle Iran _years_ ago. But those of us living in or near cities that won't be radioactive until the second or third set of bombs go off have been holding out some hope that retaliatory action might save us. We know that no such action is likely to come from Barack Obama, nor for that matter from anyone who could actually secure the Democratic nomination these days even in theory. The last Democrat of national visibility we could trust to fight back against an aggressor instead of apologizing to one and begging for mercy was Joe Lieberman. Who, less than four years after being the Democrats' candidate for vice-president, was kicked out of the party.

And not all of us can afford to move to the hinterland.

There is some hope remaining, that Obama will be as willing to throw his current allies under a train as he has been with several previous sets of allies, and therefore that the death toll of the next four years will only rise to seven figures, instead of eight.

It's that hope that gets me out of bed in the morning.

Everything else he's likely to try and break, we can fix again later.

And no, I don't really give a damn what color the man's skin is.

MuscleDaddy: It's best not to tell other people when and if they should respond. How... controlling of you.

Go back to the gym, and don't worry your pretty head over what the adults are discussing.

YCHO: You've met a poor Republican now--or more specifically, someone who doesn't wish to be poor any more. Perhaps most Republicans you've met (all two of them?) aren't poor because they choose not to wallow in bad circumstances, but really do practice what they preach--pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

"Your mentality is difficult for me to understand, because I am not consumed by the "ME, ME, ME, MINE, MINE, MINE" plague."

Nonsense; of course you are. Leftists like yourself are always in favor of grabbing someone else's money to give to the less fortunate--usually yourselves--through punitive taxation, and as long as tax increases don't affect you personally, you're all in favor of screwing someone else to get what you want. That, to me, is the ultimate in selfishness.

Please note that I never said I was opposed to charitable giving. I'm not a Randian economist, and I believe strongly in helping others who have received few breaks in life. If the government allows us to keep more of our own money, then more of that money can (and will) be earmarked to give freely to the less fortunate. If, on the other hand, the government levies punitive taxation and then spends that money in a way we would never countenance, how could that possibly be parsed as a virtue?

(OK, MD, I'm done. Really. YCHO can now have the last word and go away thinking he's won the argument.)

You-ania wrote November 6, 2008 5:33 PM:
Maybe you can pass these people on the street and ignore their suffering, but I cannot.

Your acid rhetoric makes this amusingly unbelievable. You, with compassion? We've already witnessed the shallowness of your compassion ad nauseam.

Fortunately, there is a silver lining for those of us watching to you. You'll never live happily hereafter; for to do so, you'd have to give up your hatred and that you'll never be able to do. Every day, you'll find something to bring your hatred to the fore, draining what good humor you have for those around you. Every day, you'll find people to belittle and a reason to belittle them, honing your minor acid wit. So, every day of your life will be marred by your own hand. For people like you, there is always something that needs hating. And that is your future.

On the other hand, if you work hard, maybe you could change. But why ruin your current future doing something you so obviously wouldn't like?

And you're right, YCHO, about one thing. There are apparently a whole lot of people out there still motivated primarily by race. If there weren't, Barack Obama would never have even been nominated.

Which party is it, again, that institutionalizes a policy that tells black people that they're so inferior that they'll never be able to compete in the education or job markets on their own terms, and thus require special quotas?

It's not the Republicans.

You say you've never met a poor Republican. Fair enough...if you actually believe the things you say about Republicans, it's pretty clear that you don't know many of us, so it may be quite true that you've never met one who wasn't rich.

I know a lot of Republicans. But every racist I've ever met (and I've met a few of those too) has been a Democrat.

Matt, did you somehow miss the sore loser comments that came before I even posted for the first time? I am reacting to those.

Regarding your situation, you should be much more afraid of a leader who tends to piss people off (ala Bush), than one who can perhaps smooth the feathers of our enemies. Maybe you haven't noticed it, but Obama has a talent for communication. If anybody can make us safer, it's him.

He seems very empathetic, and that is priceless like a Mastercard moment. LOL

@ qwer: What was... that? Armchair psychology? Save it.

@ Matt: Unless you are racist, you should have no problem with a half black man being nominated. If Democrats are the racist ones, then how come Republicans have never had a black nominee?

Oh, and Matt, I almost forgot...

Since McCain chose Palin as his VP nominee (obviously because she is female and he wanted to lure in the Hilary supporters), does that make him sexist?

When I was growing up, our family of 6 rode around in a 67 Mustang, drank powdered milk, and lived in crappy little crackerbox Florida houses. My father was the sole breadwinner, and barely eked by on a professor's salary. His ingenuity, creativity, and workoholic efforts eventually led him out of his professional cul de sac to start his own business, and ultimately become wildly successful at it... just in time for Wild Willie Clinton to jack all the tax brackets up AND make it retroactive back to a point five years before, nearly bankrupting someone who'd only dared to succeed, and WORSE, dreamt of reaping the rewards of his efforts, sacrifices, and risks. So you'll excuse me if I consider the tried and thoroughly DISproven ideal of "punishing the rich, the motivated, the creative, the persistent, and the hard-working -- who only did what EVERYONE wants to do: SUCCEED and enjoy the benefits of that success -- and spreading it out among the so-called 'unfortunates' -- who apparently just missed catching all that free money that rained down over everyone's heads but theirs -- that kind of 'fairness'" to be insanely stupid, widely and historically shown to be a failed concept, but most of all, outrageously UNfair.

And at age 51, I'M making just $10 an hour at a job I love, but which will never pay me anywhere near enough to lift me any higher. I'm not religious, I'm pro-choice, pro gay rights, ex-military, and officially "centrist." And I voted for McCain just to say NO to the most dangerous radical to ever get close to the office of President. So you'll pardon me if I consider any comments about my "wealth" or "racism" or "elitism" or "self-contradicting Bible-thumping" to be (putting it as politely as I possibly can) baseless, unfounded, and again, stupid.

In summation then, the combination of "YCHO's" cliche'd and dogmatic generalizations about the kinds of people that voted for McCain, plus his childish nanny-nanny boo-boo gloating, PLUS the fact that I'm the house bouncer here and wouldn't be doing my job if I continued to let such an immature pest keep spewing his braindead vitriol, I hereby grant him one last chance to address this group as an adult... and failing to do that, I WILL delete and ban his ass.

Amazing: obnoxious, whining and spiteful in defeat, and even worse in victory. Apparently you're just obnoxious, whiny and spiteful ALL the damned time. No wonder you need the government to fix your life for you.

GHS

GHS: If you want to "ban my ass" for expressing a different point of view, go for it. In doing such, you will only confirm what I already know.

As for the remainder of your post, if you only make $10 an hour (which is about the same as I make), I doubt you have anything to worry about. I am very disgusted by the fact that you would paint me as a "government leech", just because, unlike you, I am willing to help poor people.

Perhaps you can answer a question for me; why are people such as you bothered by the idea of helping the poor, but have ZERO problems with the idea of financing war? Billions of dollars, GHS. Billions of dollars being poured into what basically amounts to legalized murder. Sometimes, war in necessary, but I feel that, more often than not, in can be avoided.

The USA is extremely resilient, so after surviving 8 years under Bush's fascist regime, I suspect our country will make it through 4 years of Obama's Socialist regime.

muscle & svin: you are not wrong. They may indeed *want* to do all those things. But the effects of them cannot be disguised or covered up. Obama is a politician & he wants to be reelected. Wait and see.

Hey... that one was actually semi-civil, YCHO. But as always, in the bouncer business, it's not your points but your attitude and behavior that'll get you tossed out, and that's got nothing to do with "freedom of speech," especially not at a "private dinner party."

But in answer to your questions...

First, I have no problem WHATSOEVER with "helping the poor." But, as Bill has put it several times throughout his essays, "It's not the safety NET I have a problem with, it's the safety HAMMOCK." Second, when has throwing money at a mindset, or a social status EVER accomplished anything? Does handing free cash and bennies to someone with skewed financial priorities, a penchant for irresponsible behavior, limited vision, or a lack of motivation to actually STRIVE for betterment EVER reverse the trend? That's certainly not EVERY poor person's story, but it's the majority. And even if you think it does (despite historical precedent), how do you think it's "fair" that we should pay for this boondoggle by clobbering the very people who've not only achieved what everyone supposedly WANTS (only to be punished for it), but who already pay the vast lion's share of the taxes NOW?

As for the billions of dollars for the war -- you know, the war that ended the biggest threat in the Middle East, sent a message to friend and foe alike about the validity and credibility of a U.S. promise or threat, and has thus far produced a mere 7 years without a terrorist attack on American soil -- THAT war -- (a) I wish we didn't have to spend it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have been spent, and (b) you do realize that, even when NOT at war, all those soldiers, tanks and bullets don't just sit around in storage, or with their feet propped on a desk while they read comic books 24/7... they ALL train, and burn fuel, and expend ammunition, and endanger their lives even during peacetime and on American soil. It still costs BILLIONS of dollars, YCHO, except that when they're fighting OVER THERE, people aren't dying OVER HERE. And if you think killing your avowed murderers is "legalized murder" -- if you think the most highly trained and professional military in the world, keeping the peace and defending itself WHILE it keeps the peace, is "legalized murder," then you've just confirmed MY feelings about YOU (speaking as someone who's spent 12 years as a legalized-murderer-in-training). And again, even if we cut off all funding of the military just to "help the poor," how will you spend it? Giving them free cash? How about "affordable housing"? Think that'll fix everything?

And as for "more often than not, [war] can be avoided," I've found that rabid dogs will rip the throat out of ANYONE who gets close enough, whether they're reaching out with food, or leveling a gun on them. And no matter how much you might be an animal-lover, it's usually to everyone's benefit to just shoot a rabid animal.

Now, it's getting late here in Florida, and I won't be back tonight. But it would be better for all if you could make your contrary voice a welcome one instead of an antagonistic one in the future.

Goodnight for now...

GHS

You-ania November 6, 2008 6:49 PM:
you will only confirm what I already know.

Witty comeback, or witless and dull? Every day... Heh.

Guys - honestly - you already KNOW this.

Stop reacting to him and he'll go turn on the TV or something.

- MuscleDaddy

Just for those of you who think about things, the main thing you need to understand about idiots like YCHO is that they are incapable of thinking in anything other than stereotypes.

There is a simple and transparently obvious reason for this: when you are bereft of facts and history and logic, ALL YOU HAVE LEFT are these little morality stories based upon assertions.

For example, just because some self-righteous douchebag doesn't know any poor Republicans, THERE CANNOT BE ANY POOR REPUBLICANS. See how easy it is? You don't need to read any economics or history, you don't need to talk to anyone or overcome the barest minimum of the prejudices that make up your life -- you simply decide upon something, and that position then becomes absolute truth.

The arrogance of such a way of thinking is actually the symptom of the actual cause, and that is a deep and overwhelming sense intellectual inferiority.

So, while any reasonable person can look at the poor people in a capitalist, greedy society and see that their primary health risk is OBESITY, and then look at any warm, caring socialist country like Cuba and see that it is malnutrition and draw the appropriate conclusion, the pathological narcissist like YCHO is incapable of ANY of that. He has to be right not because his opinion is in line with facts and evidence, but rather because if he is not right then he can no longer be the center of his tiny, self-constructed moral universe.

Short form: there is no greater source of evil in the world than somone that passionately believes in things they neither understand nor care to examine.

I was at GHS's house as a small boy when we would have powdered milk for breakfast -- grey, watery stuff that smelled like oil. I saw his family of four kids live like that for years as their father worked extra hours in a lab to perfect a technique that made him a millionaire many times over.

He, likewise, has been there to lend me 80 dollars so that I could have my electricity turned on, but none of these things interests a cretin like YCHO.

Because ultimately, you see, he's not even just grossly ignorant. He is evil, far more evil than the people he likes to rail against -- the wealthy and the powerful. He is evil because he supports policies that feel good to the narcissist but who actually harm the people he claims to want to help. And that same sense of moral superiority, without any basis in reality, is what has caused people like YCHO to be responsible for the murder of no less than 100 million innocent people, at the hands of people just like him.

He and his self-obsessed, moral pygmies are a cancer on humanity, and like a cancer they continue to grow

I have no problem with a half-black (or, for that matter, all-black) man being nominated. I could name several nationaly-known black men and one likewise well-known black woman I'd be thrilled to see in the White House (as well as a lesser-known black woman I'd all but sell my soul to put on the Supreme Court...in particular, a black woman who was nominated to the federal Circuit Court of Appeals for DC by President Bush, and blocked by...go ahead and guess which party's Senators).

My problem is not with the idea of a black man as president. My problem is with Barack Obama, and specifically with what the evidence of his past tells me about his likely future behavior. I'd be just as unhappy with a white man who believed the same things he claims to believe, including all but one of the white men (and of course one infamous white woman) who ran against him in the Democratic primaries this year. (The one exception, not at all coincidentally, being one of the first ones knocked out of the race.)

I find, to use Dr King's famous phrase, the content of his character to be lacking.

And as for willingness to help the poor, I'll stack my record of charitable giving against the average Democrat's any day.

It is BECAUSE I care about charity that it offends me so greatly to see it equated with government spending. Charity is when, out of the kindness of his heart, one person gives freely to help another. Government spending funded by taxes doesn't work that way. I don't pay taxes because I choose to help people. I pay taxes because if I don't pay them, men with guns will come to my home and haul me away in chains to a locked building behind barbed wire where I'll be gang-raped. That's not charity, it's robbery under color of law. And it offends me that people like you equate that with my choice to give money and time to help the needy.

BTW, Bill and MD...nice to see you two again. And, good stuff, as always, Bill 8-)

I decided to come around for a last peek before retiring and am most glad that I did, as I was able to catch Bill's latest inspiration (da!) in addition to all the fine responses from the rest of the house.

YCHO, I have no further need to respond to you -- my mates here have my back.

Check your six, tovarishch!

- Tanka

qwer posted:

Really? I recall at one point, the polls had McCain/Palin ahead by 6%. Is that what you meant? I thought not. Then perhaps you can point to a poll which was accurate and also included the data that supports your Palin opinion. I'm fine with you having an opinion -- I just disagree with calling it a fact.

The polls did go up for Palin, but only in the short term, since she was a shortsighted choice. Data from pollingreport.com:

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation, 10/30-11/1. Likely voters nationwide:
63% believed Palin didn't have the personality and leadership qualities a President should have (up from 49% during 9/19-21). No other Presidential or Vice Presidential candidate had such high unfavorables.

CBS/NYT Poll. 10/25-29. Registered voters nationwide:
59% believed that Sarah Palin wasn't prepared for the job of Vice President (up from 50% during 10/3-5), while only 18% believed that Biden wasn't prepared.

Newsweek Poll conducted by PSRAI (Princeton Survey Research Associates International). 10/22-23. Registered voters nationwide:
54% would vote for Biden and 37% for Palin if it were possible to vote separately for VP. McCain's choice of Palin made 34% of independents less likely to vote for McCain and only 17% of them more likely to vote for McCain. The remainder didn't care or weren't sure. 55% of all voters believed Palin was unqualified to step in as President. 57% believed she was not well-informed about major issues.

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. 10/16-18. Likely voters nationwide:
52% felt that John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate made them less confident in the kind of decisions McCain would make as President.

I could go on, but there's no point, as the polling data are fairly clear-- in the long run, Sarah Palin's presence on the ticket hurt McCain. People did find her personally appealing, but that wasn't enough to sway them, and they reacted negatively to her actual policies and positions. Essentially, Palin was an unserious candidate in a serious election, although this effect was probably exacerbated by the economic crunch. Once people themselves got serious, they rightfully rejected Palin-- she believed that Africa was a country, for G-d's sake! Sarah Palin is and was a disgrace, and John McCain made a critical mistake when he let the media vet his VP candidate. With 20/20 hindsight, I would propose Romney as an ideal VP, since he would be most suited of the reasonable candidates to deal with the financial crisis, but I think a more reasonable choice would have been Lieberman and a more pragmatic one Pawlenty.

In the short run, of course, Palin was great-- she blocked the media from focusing on Obama's big DNC speech and reinvigorated the base-- but the election wasn't held two weeks after the RNC, it was held two months after the RNC. Those months gave Obama and his friends in the media more than enough time to pick apart Palin, and the bad economic news didn't help her much either. It's time to face the facts: Palin was a bad choice.

That's a very interesting (read: risible) take on the selection of Sarah Palin, and all that was done by the entrenched media to present her to the electorate as a bimbo whose only talent was $150,000 shopping sprees. She was ridiculed, misrepresented and demonized at every opportunity, in the same manner that Bush, the Republicans and conservatism in general have been demonized 24/7/365, for 8 years running.

Palin's addition to the ticket was the only inspired thing McCain did. It's the only thing that kept his defeat from sinking into double-digits in the popular vote. Then his campaign turned immediately around and destroyed the advantage she provided by (1) muzzling her and (2) allowing media mendacity like Gibson's heavily-edited interview to go utterly unchallenged.

Palin represents exactly the sort of person the Founders intended to govern this nation, and those elitists who've worked so hard to destroy her politically and personally full well know that. Those folks aren't all Democrats.

On top of all that, if anyone thinks the credit 'crisis' - something which has been brewing for years - wasn't deliberately revealed at precisely the moment Palin turned McCain's numbers around, I have a drawer full of "high-speed" memory I'll sell you at a big discount. I've been collecting it for years. MEGABYTES of RAM!

YCHO: You quoted:

If you indeed came from humble beginnings, then you of all people should know the misery of it... and in addition, be willing to do your part to assist your fellow human being. Your mentality is difficult for me to understand, because I am not consumed by the "ME, ME, ME, MINE, MINE, MINE" plague.

This country cannot advance in unison, if just one of our citizens are hungry, living in a cardboard box, sleeping on a sidewalk, etc.

Maybe you can pass these people on the street and ignore their suffering, but I cannot.

That is the first rational point you have made. I commend you for that. I myself came from a background where most of friends either ended up in jail or are dead. I was a beneficiary of the social services provided in Canada. Now, I am high school science teacher, not an inmate, and my life is a testament to the inherent goodness in a system that provides for those that gives support for the downtrodden. I agree with Bill, that it should be a safety net, not a hammock, a stimulus package, not a handout to support the status quo.
I have met many conservatives who work tirelessly for the betterment of others. Likewise, I have met many liberals whose actions are diametrically different from their words. A conservative is not always the one when a silver spoon in his mouth, just like how the liberal is not always the one waiting to blow a his welfare check on boos. By focusing on the extremes, we lose aspect of reality... and that reality is that most of us are like everyone else.

goy, your personal take on Palin is interesting. Do you have facts to back it up? I'm also interested in information on your allegations regarding this supposed credit-crisis conspiracy.

I'm particularly interested in how/why you believe the polls are wrong, considering they almost perfectly predicted the outcome of the election-- the only real error was that they underestimated Obama's margin in Indiana and the Nebraska Second District.

Fetterkey wrote November 6, 2008 11:26 PM:
The polls did go up for Palin, but only in the short term, since she was a shortsighted choice. Data from pollingreport.com:
CNN/Opinion Research Corporation, 10/30-11/1. Likely voters nationwide:
63% believed Palin didn't have the personality and leadership qualities a President should have (up from 49% during 9/19-21). No other Presidential or Vice Presidential candidate had such high unfavorables...
I could go on, but there's no point, as the polling data are fairly clear

On the other hand, courtesy of rockdalian on the next thread, from Rasmussen just post-election:
"Ninety-one percent (91%) of Republicans have a favorable view of Palin, including 65% who say their view is Very Favorable. Only eight percent (8%) have an unfavorable view of her, including three percent (3%) Very Unfavorable."
http://tinyurl.com/6blkpg

But you can believe your polls if you like. I'm not particularly interested. I'm sure both that they had interesting demographic weightings and that they included significant numbers of Democrat voters who believed the MSM slander of Palin.

Fetterkey wrote November 6, 2008 11:26 PM:
The polls did go up for Palin, but only in the short term, since she was a shortsighted choice. Data from pollingreport.com:
CNN/Opinion Research Corporation, 10/30-11/1. Likely voters nationwide:
63% believed Palin didn't have the personality and leadership qualities a President should have (up from 49% during 9/19-21). No other Presidential or Vice Presidential candidate had such high unfavorables...
I could go on, but there's no point, as the polling data are fairly clear

On the other hand, courtesy of rockdalian on the next thread, from Rasmussen just post-election:
"Ninety-one percent (91%) of Republicans have a favorable view of Palin, including 65% who say their view is Very Favorable. Only eight percent (8%) have an unfavorable view of her, including three percent (3%) Very Unfavorable."
See tinyurl.com/6blkpg

But you can believe your polls if you like. I'm not particularly interested. I'm sure both that they had interesting demographic weightings and that they included significant numbers of Democrat voters who believed the MSM slander of Palin.

RE: "I can't believe how a person who vehemently denounces the science of evolution can be taken seriously for a position that requires sound judgement and keen intellect".

When did Sarah Palin ever say such a thing? Never! Please reserve your criticisms to actual facts, not fantasies promulgated by the left-wing hate mongers

Fetterkey wrote November 6, 2008 11:26 PM:
It's time to face the facts: Palin was a bad choice.

Thanks for your opinion. But it hasn't impressed me enough to change my own opinion. Or, to put it your way, Palin was a good choice -- you might as well face facts.

Fetterkey wrote November 8, 2008 11:57 AM:
the polls... they almost perfectly predicted the outcome of the election-- the only real error was that they underestimated Obama's margin in Indiana and the Nebraska Second District.

What a wonderfully broad and general term: "the polls". I've already provided an example where McCain was supposedly up 10%. Here's another example, from All Things Considered, January 10, 2008:

Many New Hampshire polls overestimated support for presidential candidate Barack Obama ahead of Tuesday's primary. Obama came in second behind Hillary Clinton, but Hillary trailed in some polls by double-digits. Pew Research Center President Andrew Kohut says the polls' methodology was sound, but...

Perhaps you mean well, but I don't think "the polls" means what you think it means.

Fetterkey wrote November 6, 2008 11:26 PM:
I could go on, but there's no point, as the polling data are fairly clear
In case you didn't notice, while you pointed to a poll (four, in fact) "which included data that supports your Palin opinion" (which was the second half of my request), you have yet to "point to a poll which was accurate" at the same time (which was the first half).

Your view of polling accuracy isn't winning me over.

Okay, I think we're just going to have to end this one here, since we can't agree on a reasonable metric to evaluate claims equally. That being said, if Sarah Palin is the Republican nominee in 2012, barring an unforseen miracle of some kind, I will do everything within my power to aid her opponent.

Classy piece. Long live respect for the office of the presidency, even when its occupants have not been respectable.

I appreciate the sentiments and I respect your position, but this was not a fair fight and it is not a 'spectacular victory'.

This election was won by a complete brainwashing by the media of the American people. Many people who voted for this man do not even know the things he stands for. Why? Because the media refused to do their job. And those who do know, choose to ignore it.

No one I know believes in the morality of things like infanticide, or of being influenced by a racist pastor and a domestic terrorist or of a socialist type of government.

Yet these are the things Obama stands for. And people still voted for him. What kind of a disconnect is that?

If they do not support what this man believes in, then why did so many vote for him?

(I realize none of this makes any difference at this point. But I cringe at the thought of behaving as though this was a clean and fair fight. It was not.)

Fetterkey | November 9, 2008 2:31 AM:
if Sarah Palin is the Republican nominee in 2012, barring an unforseen miracle of some kind, I will do everything within my power to aid her opponent.

You're already doing that with your claims of "fact" about her.

At least, now, you might understand a major reason why McCain lost this election -- part of the GOP base "aided his opponent" by voting him down.

They're currently walking around minus a nose.

I don't think the base betrayed McCain. The one thing Palin was good at was firing up the base. I think McCain failed to appeal to moderates and independents in the way pundits predicted. Further, out of his two best arguments against Obama (inexperience and Wright), one was undermined by Palin and the other bizarrely went unused until the final hour, when it was too late. Honestly, the real losers in this election were the pundits. Practically all of their major predictions didn't come true-- remember when pundits were saying that Giuliani and Thompson were guys to watch? That Obama had no chance in Iowa? That the long Democratic primary would hurt the Dems in the general election? That PUMAs were going to play a big role in the campaign? That Palin's expenditures on clothing made her "elitist"?

Hopefully the obvious incompetence of the pundits in this election has jeopardized the people's faith in them, and our next election won't be so slanted by the failed filter of punditry.

Fetterkey wrote November 9, 2008 7:02 PM:
I don't think the base betrayed McCain... I think McCain failed to appeal to moderates and independents in the way pundits predicted.

"Base betrayed" isn't exactly the way I'd put it, but I know several conservatives who decided to punish the party because it nominated McCain. In my view, he missed getting 3-5 million conservative voters because of the "punishment" viewpoint. OTOH, that's just my personal extrapolation. Also, I'm not particularly impressed by pundits. You can always find any view you want if you sift through all their various opinions over time.

further, out of his two best arguments against Obama (inexperience and Wright), one was undermined by Palin

"Undermined" only if you believe the MSM scamming. On the other hand, if you don't like some of her positions or beliefs, I can understand why you might not like her on the ticket. But the "experience" scam was only for the unknowledgeable. The easiest way to understand that is to understand the reforms she achieved in the Alaskan GOP/Oil relationship.

Hopefully the obvious incompetence of the pundits in this election has jeopardized the people's faith in them, and our next election won't be so slanted by the failed filter of punditry.

That would be nice. But I won't hold my breath over it. Those pundits need to make a living, so I expect they'll adjust their message as best they can.

I'm not sure about the "punishment" thing, especially since McCain was easily the best Republican candidate (debatably Romney, but that's the whole hindsight thing again). I know a guy who stayed home because he thought McCain had betrayed his principles or something, but on a national scale I think people generally don't vote to "punish" a party.

As for Palin and "experience," I think picking a relative unknown shifted the media narrative away from the experience issue, which had been somewhat effective against Obama earlier. However, it's possible that the media would have shifted anyway and made this irrelevant-- they seemed bizarre and unpredictable enough during this election that anything could happen.

The things that caused heart burn in the conservative base with McCain were his support of illegal alien amnesty (a morality issue), the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act (a 1st Amendment, political speech issue), blocking conservative judgeship nominations (viewed as another morality issue), and a short list of gun-ban issues (his attempts to ban inexpensive handguns and military-looking hunting rifles -- a 2nd Amendment issue). As I mentioned, I think that adding Palin to the ticket helped overcome most, but not all of this heart burn. As for myself, I follow Lincoln, so it wasn't an issue, just a pain.

(And thanks for making it more of a conversation. :)

On top of all that, if anyone thinks the credit 'crisis' - something which has been brewing for years - wasn't deliberately revealed at precisely the moment Palin turned McCain's numbers around....
Posted by: goy | November 7, 2008 1:31 PM

Suuuuuure! The MSM revealed and trumpeted trivial little things like Lehman Bros. going BK, the Fed paying $85B to stop AIG from doing the same, the failure of Washington Mutual, the desperately needed takeover of Merrill Lynch by BOA, the conversion of Morgan Stanley *and* Goldman Sachs from investment to commercial banks, the death spiral of the stock market and the ginormous $700,000,000,000 Paulson/Bush bailout of swindlers. Except for the MSM's revelation, these trivial little non-events would have gone totally un-noticed.

I voted for McCain. I believe the MSM totally failed to provide needed information on Obama's associations. But this particular assertion fails the laugh test.

Remember that little joke that was forwarded around after the 2004 election, showing counties that voted for Bush and labeling them "Jesusland" in contrast to the "America" that voted the other way? Ironically at the same time that Dem strategists were trying to find a way to rebrand their message to appeal to Christians.
Anyway, I expect to see no such mockery of Obama voters as "Stalinland" this time around, and I am glad Bill is so classy in this piece.

(And anyone else think YCHO just may be Rufus on another computer?)

Are all Republicans (or is it just the neocons) so fearful? Why? The Democratic lead can't be any worse. And I'm sure it will be better.

It is the Republican leadership in the White House that has led us to this sorry state.

Of course it can get worse. Going from a president who gets exactly ONE issue right (Bush) to one who gets exactly ZERO issues right (Obama) counts as worse.

Well, MassachusettsModerate, ask yourself some of THESE questions:

Have you ever known the "neocons" to sound this "fearful" about any OTHER Demogogue (sorry, DemoCRAT) candidates before? Even that clueless boob Clinton, or that feckless smiling disaster-area Carter? Do you know enough of history to recognize the familiar patterns that led to the elections/ascensions of other previously undesirable radicals (like Adolph Hitler), or the acceptance of previously undesirable ideals (like many of the socialist ideas of FDR)? You know; economic crises, panicky electorates, promises of sweeping "changes" and the total abolition of the status quo? Do you know what being truly free, independent, and self-reliant means? And how completely anathema Obama's proposals are to those principles? Do you know one good thing about Obama that HE or his campaign spinmeisters haven't TOLD you themselves? In terms of his qualifications, what's the difference between Obama and just about ANY charismatic BMOC at Berkeley? And in answering that, please consider ALL aspects relevant to the presidency of the United States. You know, little things like ANY form of foreign policy, military, command or executive experience... the ability to learn from similar failed social experiments, an actual track record of courage, steadfastness, or a PROVEN love of country... how about the ability to even qualify for a Top Secret clearance under any other circumstances.

Actually, I summed up my views on this with uncharacteristic succinctness in the comment stream of Bill's "Flag/Hill" essay, under "GreatHairySilverback | November 11, 2008 5:35 AM." And I need to stop repeating myself.

Oh, and regarding your last sentence -- "It is the Republican leadership in the White House that has led us to this sorry state" -- even if you actually believe that tripe, do you really think that handing over the controls of a troubled ship of state to an amateur-grade politico, with a questionable and unresolved past, and guided by blatantly Marxist aspirations is the best way to steer it back on course again? I mean, "change" (i.e; "reform") is one thing, but "change" (i.e; "scorched earth and radical cultural shifts") is another thing altogether.

Well, for me, anyway, Clinton just embarrassed and frustrated me... but Obama scares the shit out of me. Especially when I think that the only people who can stop him are the same people that voted him into office, driving a Democrat-dominated Congress that's looking to improve upon the worst approval rating of any government institution in American history (even worse than that of GWB and his first-6-year Congress).

Yeh, what could possibly go wrong with that?

GHS

Regardless of who wins a presidential election at any given four-year interval, Americans remain Americans. They cannot separate themselves from that fact, cannot (try though some might) and simply sit out their nationality until they get an electoral result more to their liking. The rest of the world will surely not see them that way. The 9/11 hijackers didn't poll their hostages or their targets for political leanings or party affiliations.

I've quoted you and linked to you here: http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2008/11/re-historic.html

Диванные стратеги - это страшная сила!!!

Equating Obama with Hitler, even offhandedly, is a little extreme, isn't it?

Fetterkey, dude... I wasn't comparing Obama to Hitler (for one thing, Hitler wasn't a Marxist -- yes, I'm being "glib"). I was comparing the CONDITIONS that led to the rise (the "election/ascension") of previously unpopular candidates and/or ideas.

In Hitler's case, before the panicking influence of the Great Depression, Adolph and his National Socialist Party couldn't rustle up an 8% interest from the German electorate. But once the economy started to cave in, the people were suddenly much more amenable to sweeping radical solutions, along with their radical "promoter."

Similarly, here in America -- where socialist ideas and programs have a hard time gaining much traction (i.e; Hillary's failed attempt to push socialized health care), and when they DO (i.e; FDR's Social Security system), they create such a long-lasting, almost irreversible fiscal burden that the effort to keep them propped up (since no one wants to let go of their bennies once they've started receiving them) actually threatens to bankrupt everything else -- even five years ago, Obama's radical ideas would never have gotten the following they were able to attain here and NOW, especially not without the "timely" intervention of yet another major economic crisis.

That's all I meant by that... that the people responded just as they'd responded under similar conditions in the past, and allowed a previously undesirable "radical" to reach a position that he heretofore would not have gotten close to. I accept, however, that in my post-midnight haste to crank out a "list" of issues like that, my abbreviated reference might have implied otherwise. Sorry for the confusion.

GHS

Posted by: GreatHairySilverback | November 16, 2008 5:37 AM --

Hopey/Changie, got the support of the populace without thought of direction, result, or consequence. Probably there was hope for change in Germany at the time... things were a mess.

No critical thinking in this election... No Siree, Bob...

Just. Hopey. Changie.

"I am proud that once again America has lived up to it's credo and it's pledge and has elected it's first black president. With this election, we have showed the rest of the world that not only do we talk the talk, we walk the walk".

This comment and similar ones like it sprinkled through the thread show a true naivete about racism in the world.

a) it is universal
b) many holier than thou countries have more homogenous populations so they are preaching about something they have not been confronted with themselves, accomodating a sizable minority of a different race.
c) finally, note that blacks in America are far better off than blacks in any other country on the face of the planet including the ones where they dominate. This is as good as it gets for them at the moment.

So whom in the world do the naifs think they're going to impress with their half black President? Since all other countries are more racist than the United States rather than less, there's no one remotely qualified to be judging the country that has done the best by its large different race minority. Any post-election applause from other nations who either have exclusionary immigration policies (Japan, all Arabic/Muslim nations), actively persecute minority races (China, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Sudan) or create giant ghettos of black unemployment (France) is totally hypocritical. None of these countries would be caught dead electing one of their despised minority race to their highest political office. Their "approval" is meaningless and the liberal American craving for it foolish. Much of it is actually disguised glee on imagining the USA weakened by the choice of Obama. (Arabs in particular have a low opinion of blacks as attested by their centuries of slave trade up to the present).

Americans need to stop fetishizing racism, as well as underestimating their country's performance and showing servile deference to countries with much worse racism profiles.

Oh, the irony when reading old posts! I remember reading this in '08 and agreeing with you completely. I'm so sorry that the reverse of what we hoped for has proven to be true. We did expect it; didn't wish for it, but now we must try to pick up the pieces and move on.

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If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.

Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.

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The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.

Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It's very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.

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Sorry for the huge review, but I'm really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it's the right choice for you.

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If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.

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The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.

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The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.

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I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)

Hands down, Apple's app store wins by a mile. It's a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I'm not sure I'd want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.

Sorry for the huge review, but I'm really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it's the right choice for you.

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If you're still on the fence: grab your favorite earphones, head down to a Best Buy and ask to plug them into a Zune then an iPod and see which one sounds better to you, and which interface makes you smile more. Then you'll know which is right for you.

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Through the internet Banking company of PNC Bank, accountholders could also:

Alter their personalized data
Purchase for checkbook
Make ask for for stop payments and copies of deposit slips, cleared checks or account statements
Sign in for added companies like as Verified by Visa and PNC FYIs & Deals
Locate ATMs or branches of PNC Banks
Explore product information and facts, tools, articles and special offers.

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PNC Lender [url=http://www.onlinebankinglogon.com/pnc-small-business-corporate-services ]WWW PNC .COM [/url] On-line Banking is the service provided by PNC Financial institution to its clients and accountholders. Via this services, the bank will help you:

Entry your PNC Banking accounts any time on the day, from any place on the earth.
Preserve on time by executing several banking features over the web.


Banking Services Provided by PNC-Bank On the web Banking

The Bank has supplied its buyers and accountholders quite a few services by the online world Banking assistance. This free-of-cost on the internet banking assistance will help account holders:

Continue to be in contact with their finances by offering them a comprehensive summary of their PNC own, small business and investment accounts.
View their regular monthly statements and print and download the statements to the time period of approximately 36 months.
Accessibility their accounts, test their account balances and assessment the latest transactions for accuracy and authenticity.
Transfer cash from a person account to another about the web. The transfer of cash can be achieved involving two PNC Lender accounts or concerning a legitimate PNC-Bank account and also a valid account at any other money establishment.
Get their expenses on the net. This decreases likelihood of consumers incurring a high-quality due to delay in bills.
Help you save time and money by enabling them to pay for their charges online.
Toremaininformed about every single event connected with their accounts and payments through e-mail notifications.


Additional Services Offered by the PNC-Bank On the net Banking Provider

By means of the internet Banking provider of PNC Bank, accountholders also can:

Transform their particular information
Order for checkbook
Make ask for for end repayments and copies of deposit slips, cleared checks or account statements
Indicator in for extra companies this sort of as Verified by Visa and PNC FYIs & Deals
Locate ATMs or branches of PNC Banks
Explore product details, tools, articles and special offers.

I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)

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